By peg

February 25, 2010 2:13 PM | Link to this

Core courses are started in elementary school. By high school it is too late in most cases to address this problem. Check out the elementary and middle school scores and see where the problem is.

By Luke

February 25, 2010 2:17 PM | Link to this

First of all, they were fired because the teachers weren’t doing their jobs. Test scores were ridiculously low, and they had been warned. Try telling the whole story, not just your interpretation. Its a shame I have to tell you that, for free.

By Chad

February 25, 2010 2:32 PM | Link to this

The job of teacher is to present the material. It is the job of students, with the help of their parents, to learn the material. Teachers shouldn’t be fired because a student wasn’t brought up properly.

By Jimmie D

February 25, 2010 2:46 PM | Link to this

You wonder why teachers need a union? This is why, to keep administrators from walking all over them.

By Teacher

February 25, 2010 2:56 PM | Link to this

Soooooo - explain to me what other profession is expected to work for free. If a doctor was told to work extra hours with no extra pay they would refuse. Why is it that teachers are expected to work more hours with no extra pay??? If they want teachers to work longer hours they should be paid. I don’t think there’s anyone who would work more without gettin more pay (this is called overtime in most jobs….)

By Debbie

February 25, 2010 3:02 PM | Link to this

I agree with Peg. Education in basics like reading,writing and math are started in elementary school. Why were all these kids passed along thru the system if all but 7 percent could even do math? I think instead of firing teachers right away maybe they should start with grade school and find out how much effort the parents and teachers put into these children. So if all of the teachers are fired where does that leave the children?

By Jack

February 25, 2010 3:13 PM | Link to this

Fire them all. Teachers only work 2/3 of the year for full time pay. Teachers always want more money. Get the unions out of our schools!

By Jack

February 25, 2010 3:15 PM | Link to this

Fire them all! They work 2/3 of the year for full time pay and want more! Get the unions out of our schools.

By ancient

February 25, 2010 3:38 PM | Link to this

The system has reached the point where all failure is laid at the feet of the teacher. We have a convoluted situation. We are ready to pay a professional ball player millions to strikeout 2/3 of the time, but pay our teachers a subsistence amount to work with our most valuable resource, our students. Teachers need the full support of communities and parents to do the difficult job that they must do, and that doesn’t happen as much as it should. Those who think that a teacher only works 2/3rds of the time haven’t prepared materials, graded papers, and acted as a counselor until 2 or 3 in the morning on a regular basis. Maybe we should direct two thirds of the salary of the average entertainer or athlete into the education system.

By randy

February 25, 2010 3:40 PM | Link to this

Pay should be based on performance. Sounds like from this report that they are not performing. Admin should be effected as well.

By urban_girl75

February 25, 2010 4:01 PM | Link to this

Yes there should be more accountability in schools for students to be promoted to the next grade level. But, parents can contest retention and any testing to prove a learning disability. There are many students,even as young as kindergarten, that have an “I don’t care” attitude and are incredibly disrespectful to teachers and the principal. Parents need to be held accountable for their child’s behavior in the classroom. Teachers are there to teach and not to manage severe behavior issues from students and parents. Children learn what they live. Some students come to school with horrific life stories and if you have lived with the life some school children have lived you probably wouldn’t be able to learn what and when it is expected.

By Another teacher

February 25, 2010 4:09 PM | Link to this

As far as teachers working 2/3 of the year for full time pay, that statement is false. When teachers are paid during the summer, it is because they are getting paid for the days worked during the school year. We are salaried employees. Teaching is the only profession I know of where teachers have to do a lot of work outside of school hours to keep up. We also spend a lot of our own money for the classroom. We also have to renew our teaching certificates every 5 years by taking classes for which we have to pay for. How many professions do that? I agree, the basics do begin in elementary school. But if the student does not have parental support, the child is at a disadvantage. We can only do so much in 6 hours and 15 minutes a day. Many students come to kindergarden at a 3 year old developmental level. How can a teacher get the child up to 1st grade level when they come to school so far behind? If the child is retained in elementary school twice, they are turning 16 in the 8th grade and able to drive. If anyone has a solution, please help us out. I love teaching but am tired of getting blamed for what the parents and students aren’t doing. Remember, it takes a village to raise a child. Sometimes a whole country.

By Mike

February 25, 2010 4:10 PM | Link to this

Parents should take most of the blame for low test scores. They are advised every six weeks via report cards what their children are doing. I agree with Peg, if they don’t skills by high school it is to late. Maybe the school board should donate some of their time in helping these students.

By Mike

February 25, 2010 4:10 PM | Link to this

Parents should take most of the blame for low test scores. They are advised every six weeks via report cards what their children are doing. I agree with Peg, if they don’t skills by high school it is to late. Maybe the school board should donate some of their time in helping these students.

By Jen

February 25, 2010 4:28 PM | Link to this

Whats wrong with people. As a parent it is my job to ensure my child learns the material that is given by a teacher. It is not a teachers responsibility to raise my child. I would not expect any teacher to have to teach my child or any other child without pay. Teachers have families and children of their own as well. This is America now and we seem to expect everyone else to care for our children while we work, go to the gym, go out with our friends, etc. etc. etc. Parents needs to step up and take responsibility for what is there’s. We can blame the school and teachers all we want but education starts at home and should continue at home. Oh.. and Luke nobody would have paid you for your comment anyways! And Jack I would love to see you in a class room of 22 students and deal with all of the issues that arise in a full day of school.

By CSH

February 25, 2010 4:30 PM | Link to this

I think what they did was great! Maybe now they can get the bad teachers out, and rehire the ones who do teach well and keep the parents informed of what’s going on. There is definately something wrong with that school system if the grades are THAT poor. The parents can take some blame as well but I’d have to say something is wrong with the teaching in this particular school for these kind of results. Can’t wait to see how it turns out! No offense to all of the wonderful teachers out there who do their job and do it well!

By AndyC1110

February 25, 2010 5:30 PM | Link to this

And where are they planning to find a pool of applicants interested in a job in a crappy school where the teachers pay all of the consequences for a massive societal failure? C’mon folks. You’ve seen the direction society has been taking. Think Jerry Springer. Think Grand Theft Auto. Think about the music kids are listening to these days. Think about the messed up impoverished community these kids live in. And it is the teachers’ faults? Give me a break.

By Newbie

February 25, 2010 5:45 PM | Link to this

By firing all those teachers, all you have is make sure that you will get bad teachers - the unhired ones - or new teachers - that have no experience - and expect them to raise test scores. Good luck with that! Do you really think good teachers are going to search out for this job? Where they know they will get fired if scores dont improve? Yeah right. All you did was make a bad situation worse.

By Bigrig

February 25, 2010 5:47 PM | Link to this

They were fired because they refused to make ANY concessions to help increase test scores. Working the extra hours was only one of the options. If I consistently failed at my job I would expect to get fired as well!

By painfultruth

February 25, 2010 5:58 PM | Link to this

There are no bad teachers, only bad students. While not 100% correct, we have an entire generation of punks that were made to feel entitled to everything by their parents. Spoiled brats or street punks that don’t respect anything, and demand everything be handed to them on a platter. In my day, the teacher’s word was law. Today, if a teacher attempts to discipline a kid, or gives a bad grade, they are sued. You morons demanded your kids be treated gently and with feelings. You got just what you wished for with a generation of entitled and spoiled monsters that disrespect all authority, and can’t funtion in the real world!

By Charlean Souligne

February 25, 2010 7:21 PM | Link to this

ok, back up a bit. first of all teachers are supposed to teach. Many school districts require teachers to teach students to pass specialized./standardized tests, not to read at grade level, or do the math, just pass these tests. Why should teachers be asked to work without pay? I wouldn’t. Look at the whole picture for this area, there are definited bigger problems than just the teachers with such a high drop out rate. In Florida we reward schools that have tier students score well on the FCAT tests, however the schools who really need the extra money and better equipment are the ones whose students score poorly, they have no chance to catch up. Maybe this is the same there??? This system forces teachers to drag the students who underperform up and force them to learn only what is on the tests. they don’t learn to read, or do math, or geography, they only learn what is on the tests to get to the next grade. Having had children and grandchildren in schols from 1979 to 2008 I fell qualified to speak on this subject, but only for my location. I suggest the people involved, parents, administrators, teachers and students sit down and solve this problem

By Jim

February 25, 2010 8:00 PM | Link to this

Luke, Do have evidence that the teachers weren’t doing their jobs? Are test scores the only measure? Have you ever taught in the inner city?

By Jim

February 25, 2010 8:03 PM | Link to this

Painful, Write down this date. For once, I agree with you.

By Cat

February 25, 2010 8:16 PM | Link to this

I would say that the teachers should be asked to work extra hours “if” they have been absent, taken paid time off, used snow days or any other days off with pay. Teachers in our area do take days off, illness, Dr. appts. etc. See how many schools use subs. ALOT. They need to make up those hours, but beyond that, pay them for their overtime.

By Teacher

February 25, 2010 9:15 PM | Link to this

All of you who are being critical of teachers - I would welcome you into my classroom ANYDAY to see all of the other crap I deal with that prevents me from teaching to the best of my ability. I’m a fantastic teacher - on the days where I don’t have kids cussing me, fighting with each other, acting crazy, and telling me they don’t care what I do to them. We have a whole lot of kids who DON’T CARE. I DO CARE - so much that I worry on weekends about the kids who’s home lives are terrible, and the one’s who are probably hungry all weekend. I’m so sick of teachers being bad-mouthed when parents won’t even sign a simple behavior sheet that I spent all day writing about their bad child on. I did not give birth to every child in my class so I should not be responsible for ALL their successes or failures. Parents have to be accuontable - how about merit pay for good parents?????

By Teacher

February 25, 2010 9:16 PM | Link to this

All of you who are being critical of teachers - I would welcome you into my classroom ANYDAY to see all of the other crap I deal with that prevents me from teaching to the best of my ability. I’m a fantastic teacher - on the days where I don’t have kids cussing me, fighting with each other, acting crazy, and telling me they don’t care what I do to them. We have a whole lot of kids who DON’T CARE. I DO CARE - so much that I worry on weekends about the kids who’s home lives are terrible, and the one’s who are probably hungry all weekend. I’m so sick of teachers being bad-mouthed when parents won’t even sign a simple behavior sheet that I spent all day writing about their bad child on. I did not give birth to every child in my class so I should not be responsible for ALL their successes or failures. Parents have to be accuontable - how about merit pay for good parents?????

By Courtney

February 25, 2010 9:20 PM | Link to this

I bet if there were Merit Pay for parents we wouldn’t need it for teachers. When will people finally realize that PARENTS are a huge part of this puzzle (and a problem in many low preforming districts.) There are so many kids who don’t value education, and it’s impossible to teach anyone something if they don’t care to learn it or if they aren’t told it’s important to learn it.

By NTK

February 25, 2010 9:34 PM | Link to this

I see that “Teacher” cannot spell. The problem hidden in all of this is that education majors are at the bottom of every measure of collegiate talent. Those who CAN, DO…There are countless stories of unionized, tenure-protected teachers who sleep through class, molest students and still cannot be fired. Check out John Stossel’s flow chart on firing a NYC teacher. It is sad, hilarious, and TRUE! I commend that administrator for trying to cut through the BS. Yes, there are heroic teachers out there, but heroes are always the minority. That’s why they stand out. To say that the NEA and the AFT bear no responsibility for this mess is absurd.

By NTK

February 25, 2010 9:58 PM | Link to this

Nice try too-comparing an education degree to one in medicine or law. Read Leavitt’s Freakonomics for a story on what teachers did to ensure student excellence. They didn’t teach the test-they cheated on it! Please spare me the bit about grading papers and getting a master’s degree in a softball discipline. I would expect that a true professional would spend all that time off improving themselves, After all, in the real world, if you stagnate, you can be fired without an act of Congress. Wait, Congress just loves you guys-no worries there! There is no money in teaching because nearly ANYONE can be one! I agree that athletes and entertainers make a pointlessly large amount of money; they can do things we cannot do and SOMEBODY is willing to pay them. If you want educators to make more money, it is certainly already in the system. Just make it tougher to become one. Fewer will succeed and the decreased numbers could make more. You don’t like that? I didn’t think so.

By NTK

February 25, 2010 10:12 PM | Link to this

The details of this story have been omitted in this forum. The teachers in question earn 70-78K in a town where the mediam income is 22K. They were asked to log in an extra 25 minutes per day, including lunching with their students with unspecified frequency. Doesn’t sound to me like they are too dedicated to their students. More importantly, I wonder why this information was left out of the original item.

By NTK

February 25, 2010 10:34 PM | Link to this

NTK, instead of bashing the problem, why don’t you propose a solution? If your solution is having higher qualified teachers, you are lacking a plan, because in many communities, like this one in the story and here in Dayton, it goes far beyond the teacher! FYI, lack of spelling ability does not mean anything when it comes to IQ, that’s a fact!

By angela

February 26, 2010 6:46 AM | Link to this

kids learn more from their first teacher or teachers the ones they are with first and most most cases parents book learning starts in the lower grades so why pass a kid who didn’t earn to go one and it happens all over i have nephew who is 20 and still in high school to many kids get passed on to make room for new ones for the nephew they found out freshman year he has a learning disablity from ohio

By NTK

February 26, 2010 8:17 PM | Link to this

Here is my solution. Decouple education from those who earn a degree in education. Let subject matter experts teach. Way too many math teachers are lost without their annotated books because their expertise is in an amorphous collection of methods and platitudes. Get rid of the unions-pay the best people to do the job and let the schools compete for students. This is what millions of children around the country are starving for. The status quo is killing us all-bring these real changes and see what happens.

By NTK

February 26, 2010 8:17 PM | Link to this

Here is my solution. Decouple education from those who earn a degree in education. Let subject matter experts teach. Way too many math teachers are lost without their annotated books because their expertise is in an amorphous collection of methods and platitudes. Get rid of the unions-pay the best people to do the job and let the schools compete for students. This is what millions of children around the country are starving for. The status quo is killing us all-bring these real changes and see what happens.

By Modern Times

March 1, 2010 1:27 PM | Link to this

Great idea NTK. I personally know many Teachers who do in FACT work about 2/3 of a year. They choose to space their income out over 52 weeks. Nice try teachers! Most teachers have 183 day contracts. 183 X 8 = 1464. THAT”S PART TIME! I don’t want to hear that crap about grading papers ‘til all hours. Yuo aren’t doing that. The MENSA Research Journal places teachers 14th in respect to intelligence required to earn a degree. Another Teacher: Most of us salaried professionals work around 280 days per year and at least 10 hours per day. That’s nearly double the hours you work! It’s time to clean house on these lazy teachers. Maybe then we could pay the good ones what they are worth.

By kinnynobo

March 3, 2010 9:58 AM | Link to this

If you’re not apart of the solution, you’re apart of the problem. I taught school 20+ years ago in an urban setting and got out because of my frustration.. It was the easiest job I ever had. In my first year, I got my students’ Iowa Test scores(?) and was startled at the results. I found out how elementary teachers were passing kids without regard for results…not my problem! I then found out that 75% of parents didn’t care…not my problem! Administration said try harder…not my problem. So I became an administrator - school board basically said…not my problem. I left - not my problem. My kids all graduated from college - business woman, doctor, and pharmacist. Life is not that difficult.

By Future Teacher

March 8, 2010 2:21 PM | Link to this

As someone getting ready to go into education, let me tell you what I have to know in order to teach your kids. I have to have all of the classes a science major (which I am) must have, PLUS child psych classes, PLUS education in the classroom courses. Oh and I also have to have my Masters Degree, which includes a thesis. Don’t pick on education majors, because as of now, most of us choose this position and have to actively work to maintain it, something I doubt most other professions have to also accomplish.