Thurgood Marshall graduation 2012
Badin vs. Versailles
Law Enforcement Memorial Day
E-mail 
E-mail Home > Blogs > Get on the Bus > Archives > 2011 > April > 22 > Entry
Bargaining bill’s savings overstated, schools say
Laura A. Bischoff, Josh Schweigart and I wrote these stories:
A state analysis released this week estimates Montgomery County school districts could save a combined $36 million annually from the passage of Senate Bill 5.
But some area school officials say the estimated savings for their districts are way off, with one charging the math appears to be more political than fiscal.
The Ohio Department of Administrative Services based its analysis on the assumption that eliminating step and longevity increases and requiring the school district’s employees to pay 15 percent of their health insurance premiums would save the district $3,566 per employee.
The findings suggest Dayton Public Schools, with 2,456 full-time employees, would save nearly $8.8 million a year.
But district Treasurer Stan Lucas said the most it would save is $2 million.
“Our employees already pay 15 percent of the premium so there’s nothing to be had there,” he said, noting the $2 million savings could come from eliminating the step increases. “I think their analysis needs further analysis,” he said.
Springfield City Schools Treasurer Chris Mohr called the assumptions flawed.
The analysis found it would save nearly $3.5 million a year, but Mohr pegged the savings at less than $1 million. About $770,000 would come from eliminating step increases and $46,685 from health insurance changes.
“(DAS) is obviously supporting Senate Bill 5 and promoting it,” Mohr said.
Dan Kaman, legislative liasion and spokesman for the Department of Administrative Services, said they did not do tailored calculations to figure out which of the state’s 719 school districts already pay close to 15 percent and which are far from it.
“If we had reached out to all these entities, it would have taken forever,” he said.
State estimates SB 5 savings at $829 million for districts
School districts across the state would save an estimated $829 million under the law restricting public employee compensation and collective bargaining rights, according to a state fiscal analysis of Senate Bill 5 by Ohio’s Department of Administrative Services.
The data released this week estimates school districts will save $486 per employee per year by requiring them to pay 15 percent of their health insurance premiums. That’s assuming employees currently pay 10.7 percent, the statewide average, according to DAS officials. The assumptions about how much would be saved from doing away with step and longevity increases, averaging $3,298 per worker, are based on pay increases given to state workers.
“Everybody’s step increases are different,” Springfield City Schools Treasurer Chris Mohr said, lamenting the state did not ask the school district to review its data before releasing it. District spokeswoman Kim Fish called it “irresponsible to mislead our community” with such data.
She said the school district has already saved $900,000 a year in health insurance costs. “We’ve been working really hard to realize this savings they are saying we now have to make,” she said. “We have already covered this ground.”
Kaman said his office wasn’t able to examine each of the state’s 719 school districts, joint vocational schools and educational service centers separately, but wanted to produce something “so that local school districts and local school boards know what kind of savings they have.”
“If this had been in place last year, this is how much we would have saved,” he said. Going forward, savings will be tempered while school districts wait for current union contracts to expire, he said. Pay cuts will not be retroactive once they do expire.
The DAS estimate does not include potential savings from requiring employees to pay their share of their pension contributions.
DAS is a Cabinet-level agency reporting to Gov. John Kasich, a supporter of Senate Bill 5.
The nonpartisan Legislative Service Commission that reports to the General Assembly released a fiscal report saying there may be savings from Senate Bill 5 but did not put a dollar amount on it. It said creating a performance-based pay criteria for teachers to replace step increases could cost the state and local governments money in implementation.
Dayton Public’s treasurer, Stan Lucas, said the potential $2 million in savings to his district that would come from eliminating the step increases could be wiped out if they have to create and implement performance-based pay criteria for teachers.
Labor leaders and other opponents of Senate Bill 5 are trying to gather the more than 231,000 signatures needed to put the issue before the voters in November.
Kasich says Senate Bill 5 gives school districts and local officials the tools need to manage their costs in a tough budget cycle.
The governor’s budget proposal calls for $3.1 billion in cuts to schools across the state. Kasich has warned school officials not to go to the ballot and simply ask voters to increase taxes to make up for the state cuts.
A coalition of school board officials and district treasurers Thursday issued a sharp rebuke to that assertion.
“With the level of additional cuts made necessary by the governor’s proposed budget, the only course of action available for districts is either to further reduce services to children or ask local voters to replace what the state has taken away,” according to the coalition, which includes the Ohio School Boards Association.
Kasich this week said no district would see its total funding — state, federal and local combined — go down by more than 7.9 percent. Most families have figured out how to trim 5 to 10 percent from their budgets and governments ought to be able to do the same, Kasich said.
State-projected district savings Senate Bill 5 fiscal analysis by the Ohio Department of Administrative Services Beavercreek, $3.1 million; Centerville, $3.8 million; Dayton, $8.8 million; Fairborn, $2.0 million; Huber Heights, $3.0 million; Kettering, $3.3 million; Lebanon, $2.0 million; Miamisburg, $2.4 million; Northmont, $2.6 million; Springboro, $2.2 million; Trotwood-Madison, $1.2 million; Vandalia-Butler $1.5 million;West Carrollton, $1.8 million; and Xenia, $2.3 million.
Comments
By Chippin' Dale
April 26, 2011 9:39 AM | Link to this
The best way to prove a point is with an example. Dale’s English teacher must’ve have been underpaid and lacked the necessary motivation to teach.
By dale
April 25, 2011 4:26 PM | Link to this
Mr Obama doesnt have anything tom do with the price of gas. T hat is set by the energy traders, and oil companies. Go ahead make teaching an undesirable career option and you will get what youpay for. Lousy un motavated people to teach your children . If you think people are going to get a masters degree and work for 30,000 a year your nuts .
By Squirrellygirl
April 25, 2011 3:09 PM | Link to this
You would think a teacher would be able to do the math and figure this out. What part of we are going bankrupt, we’re out of money, don’t you get? Kasich isn’t cleaning your clocks, but he did away with union clout on public jobs where they didn’t belong. Kasich is saving jobs and reducing the state deficit, he’s adjusting what public servants pay in for their benefits to look more like the private sector. The unions have held their power over the taxpayers heads and have caused a lot of the problems we are having to deal with today. That’s why they have dwindled from the private sector. They put the car companies out of business, and they are trying to put the public sector out of business. Unions have not helped our economy. The students are not doing any better since the development of the Department of Education. Socialism and political agendas have been indoctrinated into our children’s brains, and parents and taxpayers are standing up against it and stopping it. We stopped it in our state when Kasich was elected. Kasich is doing his job, and I for one THANK HIM for doing his job. Public workers don’t have anything to worry about. Just do your job like we in the private sector have to. I don’t have any union to save me from losing my job, and as a tax payer I don’t want unions driving up the cost of our state budget so they can get their “share” of it. I don’t think the unions are fair or just anyway. I don’t care for their violent rhetoric, neither.
By Freedomlover
April 25, 2011 2:41 PM | Link to this
Start at the federal level and eliminate the Department of Education. Secondly, dismantle the Democratically controlled teacher’s unions. Thirdly, give parents school choice. And finally, taxpayers should not be forced to subsidize failing school districts.
By Judi wants a cracker
April 25, 2011 2:39 PM | Link to this
Judi, you no longer live in Ohio, but seem to post on all these blogs on a daily basis. Why don’t you just admit it, you love Ohio and you miss it.
By Let me tell you why it's bad
April 25, 2011 2:03 PM | Link to this
1)I already pay 15% of health care. No savings there. 2)Already pay what is required to pay for pension-no savings there. 3)Merit pay unfair. How do you determine progress for a child that does not have the cognitive ability to pass a state test? Spec Ed Teachers will never see a raise. 4)IF a merit system is implemented, monies from step raises would fund merit raises. No savings there. 5)Districts that have done a merit system have abolished it after a couple years because it doesn’t work-no increase in test scores were seen.6)Each district should establish its evaluation system, NOT THE GOVERNMENT 7)Do you want 40 kids in your child’s kdg class? Teachers won’t be able to spend individual time w/students. Collective Bargaining keeps that from happening. I can keep going…..
By max
April 25, 2011 1:52 PM | Link to this
The more I read about Kasich’s budget and its pulling numbers out of the air, this misrepresentation of the savings don’t surprise me. Unions aren’t against changes - IF THEY MAKE SENSE. These numbers the Gov is throwing around gets proven wrong time after time after time. THAT is why SB5 needs to be thrown out of the water - it is all about politics and nothing about the budget. The numbers are proving that.
By D
April 25, 2011 1:09 PM | Link to this
@Megan, just so you know, teacher pensions are not quite like the pensions that exist in the private sector. We do not pay Social Security. We do pay into STRS as our retirement. WE pay 10% right now. You pay into Social Security and it is only 2% this year. Our “gold-plated entitlements” better be higher than your Social Security checks. WE put more into it. As for health care, most school districts already pay 15% of our health care per the article.
By JUDI
April 25, 2011 12:57 PM | Link to this
PHILMAN: what a load of crap. You must be smoking that stuff you got at Philman’s. The people on this post have NO regard for facts of any kind. Typical brainwashed Red State.
By Bring On SB5
April 25, 2011 11:07 AM | Link to this
SB5 will save non-public employee union taxpayers in Ohio (the REAL middle class) from higher taxes to pay for overly-generous benefits to public employees. I support SB5…even if it only saves a dime.
By Squirrellygirl
April 25, 2011 8:49 AM | Link to this
Read Philman’s post. Are you tired of the high gas prices? Well, they are going to go higher. President Obama said his energy plan would make energy prices skyrocket. I think that might be the only thing he told the truth on. Obama doesn’t see a future for Americans where they are driving their cars to work. His vision for America is taking our money and redistributing it out of our country. That’s why his administration won’t allow permits for drilling here, but sent billions of our dollars to Brazil for drilling there. Does putting a communist in charge of jobs, a green czar, make you feel warm and cozy about how Obama is looking out for Americans and our need for jobs? No? Me, neither. I think Obama is narcisstic and anti-colonial and hates Americans and is a racist. But no matter what I think, what matters is what he is doing to our Republic. We are about to lose our good credit rating thanks to this administration’s stand on spending. Obama will add a gas tax which will make all of us suffer. He’s inflated our dollar by monetizing the nation’s debt, and gas prices are continuing to skyrocket because of it. I will never complain because our government is trying to help Ohio save money and save jobs, and the SB5 is going to help us. What Obama is doing is not helping but hurting our country.
By educated
April 25, 2011 8:44 AM | Link to this
You can’t have it bother ways. Cut teachers and hire at $30,000—are you kidding? Teachers do not pay into social security, they pay into their own retirement. That’s a catch 22…if they don’t pay into SS and you idiots think they are “fat cats” making $40-60 at the END of their careers (30 years) what exactly do you think someone with students loans for a bachelors AND MASTERS should make? That’s ridiculous and ignorant of you. Pay teachers what they deserve and work with them instead of against them. Let me remind all of you that the teachers are blamed by the same idiot parents who think RAISING their children is on the schools. Can’t have it both ways people.
By Concerned Citizen
April 25, 2011 8:14 AM | Link to this
Wow Cut the Fat - wanting thousands of your neighbors to lose their jobs. Great solution to unemployement and health care costs!
By Quentin
April 25, 2011 8:06 AM | Link to this
Ok, they used AVERAGES from across the state to figure the savings. One area will see less savings but other areas will see a lot more to make the difference overall. Not exactly rocket science to figure out they didn’t lie on anything in their attempts to figure it out or anything else. This is a common practice in business and even home budgeting. If nothing else, it shows they didn’t go far enough with the entire bill and that some unions were at least willing to work with districts though it shows others obviously were not. Sorry but we ALL must tighten our belts right now to bail out of the mess years of overspending by BOTH major parties and we can’t just tax our way out of it all. Both of my grandmothers were teachers and BOTH hated the unions because they found the exact same things as I found when looking at getting a public sector job, it is WHO you know and who you kiss up to in the unions as much as anything else on who gets hired. Laws on hiring can be fully ignored if you know the right person and the people who will do the best job for our kids can be passed over by kissing the right rear. Do those claiming we are attacking the teachers and rest want the BEST person or the best CONNECTED person reaching our children?
By Alleycat
April 24, 2011 7:13 PM | Link to this
Stop the Steps!!!! Ohio is broke!!!!!!! The union thugs have stolen our state!!!!!!!!!!!!!! These are part time employees who should be fired or cut the fat out of their paychecks.Stay tuned, it will happen!!!!!!!!!!!!!
By Get a summer job
April 24, 2011 7:06 PM | Link to this
Step increases are symptoms of greed and entitlement with no basis, basically the unions hand in our pockets.These part time teachers can get a summer job if they want more and more and more.
By Jan
April 24, 2011 4:46 PM | Link to this
If we apply the logic of firing all experienced workers from all jobs, and hiring the inexperienced youth of today, companies will save a lot of money too! How many private employees are up for that?
By Teacher-Think Please
April 24, 2011 9:53 AM | Link to this
Cut the Fat & others….I am a 30 yr. old teacher that has been in the private sector as a retail employee and in the public as a teacher making 28-30K for years on end. Now with a master’s, many years experience (which is more beneficial than any degree) and a great district that really cares-I make 53K. Trust me, with current teaching demands, effective teachers won’t be there long with low salary. You are also failing to add in that they also will be paying more into STRS & healthcare if this all goes down. Do you really want the educators of your children compensated with less than the average mall employee makes working nights & weekends at JCPenney’s? (Yeah-I’m sure you’ll get a quality educator out of that logic.) Here’s a thought—“Bad” teachers can be fired now. How about legislation forcing the ADMINISTRATORS to use the power they already have? Then the ill-informed public can quit complaining and the informed can rest assured that their “good” teacher’s jobs live to see another day.
By Jan
April 24, 2011 9:30 AM | Link to this
Good to see that class warfare is alive and well in both parties. Let’s apply the standard to every job and fire all skilled, experienced workers and hire those without experience for half the pay. THAT should fix what is wrong in this country. Sarcasm intended.
By R U Kidding Me
April 24, 2011 6:18 AM | Link to this
Our federal govt as well as the State of Ohio is teetering on the edge of financial armegedon. Kasich is stepping up an presenting a reasonable attempt by restrictions imposed in SB5 to eliminate the one-sidedness in contract negotiations with public unions. Kasich is doing this at the real threat to his political career knowing that he may now only be a one term governor - but it is a fix to the system that is desperately needed. SB5 is a serious damaging blow to the union leaders or the fight wouldn’t be on. We see the real attitude of the liberal dems - the give me more crowd, the takers, the irresponsible, the lazy. Despite being over compensated, over paid and underworked for years, many “public servants” refuse to take reasonable steps to lower the crushing burdeon on tax payers. Fat retirements, fat paychecks, big kingdoms. Every salary and benefit paid to each individual public employee should be posted prominently on a bulletin board in the lobby of thier work place and on the internet too. Then and only then can we see the outragious salaries and benefits we pay our “public servants” many, who thanks to the union, rip us off every day. It is past time to rise up against govt at all levels. INSURRECTION NOW!
By why is it bad?
April 23, 2011 11:47 PM | Link to this
Why is SB5 so bad? Why does everyone bash it? Obviously they don’t pay attention to anything other than the negativity. If SB5 is so bad, then wy are most schools in the area already requiring teachers to pay 15% into pension and eliminating step pay increases on their own? Obvisouly they know that something must be done, but SB5 is bad because it helps to curb some of the biggest donations to unions in this country. Most teachers don’t know why they are against SB5, they just regurgitate the same crap they hear some union delegate spout out
By Maxwell Powers
April 23, 2011 11:34 PM | Link to this
I don’t see how the numbers add up in this way: on the one hand, they are eliminating step increases, but replacing them with merit raises. Unless they plan on making the merit benchmarks impossible to reach, I don’t see how this does more than shift money around!
By ohdave
April 23, 2011 9:23 PM | Link to this
Megan… you are a moron. Teacher salaries are already far lower than private sector professionals. Check the Bureau of Labor Statistics for the facts. Cut the fat… you are a moron. Why stop at 30K? Why not 20 or 15k? Hell, let’s pay minimum wage for teachers and take away all of their health and retirement altogether?
By ohdave
April 23, 2011 9:16 PM | Link to this
The analysis assumes that NO teachers receive raises. But our governor said no one would lose salary from senate bill 5… he would never lie.
By Kasich knows best
April 23, 2011 7:14 PM | Link to this
The bill is needed, like it or not.If unions oppose something, you know it is great!
By ohiodale
April 23, 2011 6:19 PM | Link to this
I would never believe the school districts either. Lets wait until we hear the actual numbers from a neutral party. I am for teachers but completely against unions for government employees. I never heard of anything so stupid than to need a union against the same government the liberals want to control our healthcare. The same people agasint this bill were for the take over of healthcare and all of their numbers were way off. At least this bill still saves money unlike the HC bill wich will end up aking medical costs and taxes go up. Look pass the nose on your face people. Yhe union is pushing opposite to SB5 because the union is losing power. The unions care not one bit about the teachers. I have the right to say this because my income is based on a teacher’s salary.
By Neurotic unions cost billions
April 23, 2011 6:10 PM | Link to this
Too bad the teacher unions hate prosperity for the state of Ohio.Too bad they are selfish and greedy.Too bad the taxpayers are drowning because they want more.Eliminate step increases, tenure and bring in vouchers.
By Null
April 23, 2011 6:05 PM | Link to this
The bill will be extremely effective.If the unions are against it, it has to be good for the taxpayer.
By rukidding
April 23, 2011 1:20 PM | Link to this
The figures stated as savings for step increases are absolutlely ridiculous. The teaching profession is being treated horribly by the polititions. ( I am not in that profession. ) Too bad the governor hates teachers and unions so much. He will be voted out next opportunity for Ohio !
By D
April 23, 2011 10:33 AM | Link to this
Two lessons in this article: 1) Don’t believe every number that you hear from politicians. They “cook the books” in their favor to sound good. 2) Districts have and are making efforts to decrease their costs.
By Dr. Real
April 23, 2011 10:23 AM | Link to this
If the savings is only half the amount stated, it’s a good deal. If Senate Bill 5 was a non-factor, then the unions wouldn’t be fighting it so adamently.
By It's a train wreck
April 23, 2011 9:50 AM | Link to this
Let’s not do anything and see what happens. Some times the train has to run off the track to get people to notice.
By jimmie
April 22, 2011 10:10 PM | Link to this
So is the point of this article that SB5 does not go far enough? Or is the point of this article that school employees should be happy that it does not go very far? Bottom line - everyone agrees it reduces spending - and that has to be a good thing.
By Philman
April 22, 2011 9:49 PM | Link to this
I think Ohio is $8 billion dollars in the hole, and The new Guv. has 4 years to show some kind of improvement. Governers Cant print money like Presidents can,Please dont count on the DDN to keep you posted with the truth about either one, We are dying over the HIGH Gas prices, when Obama was running for prez. he said he wanted us to pay $5.00 a gallon to force us to quit driving so much, where is the DDN, he laid out a spending bill that would BANKRUPT America Instatly, lucky for us the Republicans put the brakes on That mess, Now Obama is going around talking like a Republican conservitive( what a hypocrit) where is the DDN, he said he would end the Bush war in middle east,now he has us in Afganistan & libya. where is the DDN, he said he would close Gitmo, now he said he’ll keep it open, where is the DDN. CAN WE BELIVE ANYTHING HE SAYS, OR CAN WE TRUST THE DDN TO INFORM US? NO NO!!!!
By Megan
April 22, 2011 6:48 PM | Link to this
If that is the case then SB5 needs to go farther!!!! These public employees need to contribute 50% to their pensions, just like the private sector. And if they have received the many step raises and cost of living raises in the past 3 years, then they need to pay that back to the middle-class taxpayers who were forced to pay for these gold plated entitlements. They need to pay their share..for their own benefits!!! SB5 does not go far enough and this article proves this. Thank you DDN for bringing this to the taxpayers attention. I am calling my congressman now to tell them these public sector union employees need to pay their fair share for their benefits.
By Plutocracy
April 22, 2011 6:32 PM | Link to this
Plutocracy. Google it.
By Jones
April 22, 2011 6:16 PM | Link to this
I wonder if DAS has done any analysis on how long it will take for the governor to be removed from office.
By Alleycat
April 22, 2011 6:02 PM | Link to this
Cut the fat! Eliminate tenure! Hire teachers at half the current salaries! If the bill does not pass, more teacher jobs will be lost.Embrace change! Embrace hope!
By Cut the Fat
April 22, 2011 5:56 PM | Link to this
Fire the tenured teachers.Then hire new teachers for thirty thousand who will be thrilled for a job.
By Skeptic
April 22, 2011 5:53 PM | Link to this
Great reporting on this one. It is rare to see local papers really dig into the numbers. It goes to show how much of this is really just politics on the backs of our kids ……………….. By the way, how much grant money did they give the greeting card company in Cleveland?
By Cut the Fat
April 22, 2011 5:50 PM | Link to this
Fire teachers with tenure.Let the fat cats get hungry.Then hire teachers who are just happy to earn $30,000 per year and say thank you.