By Concerned Mom of 3

February 5, 2009 5:32 PM | Link to this

In order for the Dayton Public Schools to meet “AYP,” the district has to meet certain percentages for attendance. If they don’t meet the attendance goal, they don’t make “AYP.” (Achieving the attendance goal is no small feat when you are dealing with parents who don’t value education. It is much easier to “roll over and take the day off” when the weather is bad.) It is important to note that when a student is suspended, that student is counted as “absent” and it takes away from the district/building meeting the attendance criteria. The state’s definition of meeting “AYP” is flawed. I would guess that the DPS Principal’s try not to suspend students unless they absoultely have to- because it hurts the attendance statistics. That is part of the reason the disruptive students are sent back to class- or are sent to work in another classroom instead of being suspended. The state’s system of evaluation is a flawed.

By Oldprof

February 5, 2009 8:47 AM | Link to this

Rick, regarding discipline, yes it needs to be job one. Now, to get it, there need to be 2 changes. First: the state needs to pass tort reform legislation so that school systems cannot be sued for silly things; the threat of lawyers and court time is what scares administrators and teachers away from imposing stiffer discipline. Second, consider that discipline fails if the student decides to leave the system and go elsewhere, thus shrinking enrollments and reducing revenues—so we will need to eliminate charter schools, otherwise discipline problems simply retaliate by transfer.

By Oldprof

February 5, 2009 8:43 AM | Link to this

Patty: do you base your opinions on any facts? If more money does not accompany quality, then why do so many teachers quit in the first five years of the career—and say they did so to earn more money in better working conditions? Do you realize how much state higher ed. subsidy went to prepare those teachers who are not in the profession? Patty, tell us what you do for a living so that we can hurl unfounded, inaccurate insults at you on the same basis—fair’s fair, after all.

By Rick

February 3, 2009 7:01 PM | Link to this

Mr. Mims, there will not be hope for Dayton students who want to learn until the Board and Administration get off their collective asses and impose an appropriate level of discipline. Today I visited the Ohio Department of Education’s website and ascertained that Dayton does not impose discipline frequently enough. Indeed, Columbus City Schools discipline at a rate 10 times, yes 10 times, per 100 students as Dayton. Kettering disciplines at twice the rate and Toledo at 6.5 times as often. Until Dayton gets serious about discipline, all the money in the world will be wasted. This has been going on for a long time. Jim DeBrosse reported on this in February 1995, I brought similar information to the Board in 1996 and 1997, but the DPS has steadfastly refused to impose an appropriate level of discipline.

By Patty

February 3, 2009 9:10 AM | Link to this

I’m all for paying a reasonable salary, but higher salaries do not guarantee quality. Higher salaries get people that just want the salary. There are many people that go into teaching just because they want the summers off. I think if you are going to be a teacher, 1) you need to like kids, 2) you need patience, 3) you need to understand that all kids are different unique individuals, 4) teachers need to quit causing peer pressure. There are good teachers and bad teachers. Unionized and governmentally controlled means the bad teachers never go away. That’s why government grows so big, they can’t stand to get rid of anybody, so they keep people that do not do their jobs add another position and hire a new person to do the job the original person did not do. Now we pay for 2 people and only 1 actually works.

By calvin

February 2, 2009 10:25 PM | Link to this

We have to disagree with Mims that this will change the funding. Part of the undiscussed increase will be from a change in property tax allowing tax to grow as the value of property grows, which was reversed decades ago by a Bill whose number I’ve forgotten. The other is the “Hope” idea. Manure: we had hope Obama would do as he said in his campaign and it’s not happening. We’re having the corrupt people reappointed to run government again who were leftover from the Clinton and Carter years. Same in Ohio. We have a weak governor spouting what the superintendent and Fingerhut want. They sat making eyes at each other during his speech. Redoing the colleges has been done over and over; it’s just job security for the seat-warmers at UD and Wright State in Education departments. If they knew what they were doing we wouldn’t even be discussing this. As for the people from the business sector coming in with special easy certification to show old educators how it should be done, that’s more irrational exuberance. Tried and failed: can you say IBM in Buffalo? As for the Hope again, the problem is the kids and parents. Until someone will starting making parents responsible and stop handing out money for illegitimate pregnancies and to families with no fathers in them, it ain’t gonna change folks. You can pretend and pat each other on the back all you want. It ain;t changing. The problem is the kids and parents. Only a fraction of the teachers could do better because of their own incompetence and lack of intelligence. Oh, take athletics out of schools and colleges as major sports competitions. That will fix a lot and save enough money to pay for the 11% longer school year.

By Leon Harrison

February 2, 2009 6:45 PM | Link to this

Leon Harrison West Carrollton, Ohio Monday, February 2, 2009 To: The Editor Subject: Hindsight warning and wisdom about goofing off and skipping school “To you little bomb-scare fools in schools:” If you were the student who called in your bomb scare to the Trotwood Middle School, you disrupted “your” school and had all classes and students dismissed for a day. You and they got to go outside and hang out and play, and got to roam before going back home. Yes, you caused some chaos and fear and got some media attention; you may even be seen in the newspaper or on TV. I bet that you have no regrets, as yet. This was fun and gave you a thrill. You don’t give a damn about a wasted school day or about who pays the bills. I assume that some stupid kid did this but I could be wrong. Anyway, it was just one day off. What could it hurt? After I graduated from high school, back in 1968, reality and the unintended consequences of my bad and lazy behavior hit me as soon as I had to do my best at filling out job applications and taking employment, military and aviation tests. My competitors, instructors and monitors used to ask me: “Didn’t you do this in school?” Yes, I had…or could have or should have. I just goofed off with my friends now and then, and didn’t pay enough attention during that class or that day. Yes, I had once known or could have or should have recalled or remembered or worked out the correct answer to that ONE pesky question that made me fail or lose by just a little bit. Just a few correct answers [and serious classes and useful subjects] could have and would have made all the difference to me and my adult results. If you want to be a soldier, a pilot, a cop or employed as anything else, you have to be able to read, write and speak English. You have to know some math and science. These three subjects are the basic foundation necessary for an education and to make one employable if not enjoyable. Yes, you may scoff [if you are able to read this] and laugh this off. Well, I guess that you enjoyed your one day off, with some fleeting fun and fame, by causing this chaos and some parental pain. Remember it well when unemployment becomes hell, and you fail those tests and cannot compete with the best of us or even with the rest of us. Yes, while you sit there in that chair and stare and strain your brain and sweat, you too will regret being such a selfish stupid short-sighted little fool and missing that one day of school. Leon Harrison West Carrollton, Ohio

By Not so simple

February 2, 2009 5:50 PM | Link to this

Concerned Mom, you hit it on the head! Changing the system WILL NOT be simple. And if it’s not implemented properly could make things WORSE for our at-risk populations. And, afterall, isn’t this what we’re talking about — I mean is anyone seriously saynig that the education in the suburbs isn’t any good? Get real! If a suburban kid wants to apply themselves, they can get an awesome education. Far superior to anything offered 25 years ago when I was in k-12. The other problem is money. This sounds VERY costly. You’d need more money for these “mentors”, more money for staff training (if new teachers need to spend a year in class with another teacher, districts will have to anticipate their hiring needs 2 years out), and if they’re serious about attracting higher quality people to the profession, they’re going to have to offer higher salaries. Much higher. $40,000 to start. “Lead” teachers need to be into 6 figures. Where will the money come from? Is there enough political will to do this?

By Oldprof

February 1, 2009 11:23 PM | Link to this

Addressing your question directly, Scott—yes, I agree with Riley. The teacher improvement plan, I perceive, doesn’t only center on the residency period, but also on revising the curricula of colleges of education—something I suspect Chancellor Fingerhut is already on board with. Our teachers have been ‘prepared’ with too much abstact education theory and far too little content knowledge; any program that reverses those values and improves teacher retention has some real potential—unlike the utter failures of the ‘choice’ mismosh of programs.

By Jeffrey Mims

February 1, 2009 12:43 PM | Link to this

The biggest idea is really the message of HOPE. Hope for our children, our communities and for Ohio. Not since the earlier stages of the DeRolph School Funding case (1991),the Common Please Court dicision (1993), and the four Ohio Supreme Court rulings (1997,2000,2001 & 2003), declaring the method of funding Ohio’s schools to be unconstitutional, has there been this much excitement and hope for those who truly want a high-quality system of public education for all children, regardless of their circumstances. The Governor’s proposals will very strongly address two of the more significant elements found by the court declaring our educational system to be unconstitutional; the over-reliance on local property tax and a funding formula that does not effectively distribute money to students according to their needs and state standards. At one time the local property tax seemed only to be a problem with urban and rural school disticts because of the low community wealth and low property values. In more recent years it has become a problem with richer and more affluent districts as well. The other two points, school loan fund and school facilities conditions have been given more attention. Additionally, I am very hopeful of the Governors efforts to broaden the measures for student achievement to include additional elements to standardized testing,a more practical, comprehensive and realistic teacher training program, and a greater state responsibility for funding public education as per the Ohio Constitution. For the children’s sake, I wish Governor Ted Strickland much success!

By Concerned Mom of 3

February 1, 2009 12:06 PM | Link to this

In order for the “higher quality teacher” concept to work, there has to be a valid way to measure a teacher’s skillfulness… If a teacher’s skillfulness is based on heavily on student achievement, Ohio may end up with very few teacers who are willing to risk the job insecurity that would come along with working with the “at risk” students. (You know, there are bad doctors who made it through the rigors of medical school/residency…) Think about it like this… Are doctors evaluated after their schooling, based on patient performance? If they are, I don’t know about it… For example, if a doctor chose to work in an Oncology unit- would he be evaluated as a bad doctor because too many of his patients died??? Would people really hold him to a standard that was impossible to meet? The question then becomes, how do you come up with a valid way to measure the quality of care a patient receives- in every individual situation? Is this concept even possible to implement in a fair/unbiased way? And at what cost? Mr. Riley makes it sound so simple to implement, but I think there is much more to consider before putting something like this in place.