By Rick

September 13, 2008 12:56 PM | Link to this

There a lot of good comments here, even the ones that disagree. One of the problems with many big city schools is that the problems are overwhelming and there is a tendency for the staff to give up and look out for themselves. You know, lobby for larger salaries and have a lot of administrators. Our former Deputy Superintendent used to ask teachers how many of them grew up in poverty. A lot would raise their hands and her point was made. Kids from poverty can learn. The school system cannot give up. You do what you can in spite of the great obstacles. Under the Kids First Team over half the principles were replaced. That told me they “Got it” because having an involved, dynamic principle is the most important ingredient in a successful school. Too many of ours were merely putting in the time.

By Oldprof

September 9, 2008 10:09 PM | Link to this

Thank you for paying attention, School Supporter. Yes, consolidating districts would save money (fewer board members generating less red tape) and increase quality (elect seven people per county, rather than 70). But let’s face it, you can’t put everything in every blog post; mine get too long as it is.

By deb

September 9, 2008 5:35 AM | Link to this

As a foster parent several years ago, I had a 6 yr old - in kdg for the 2nd time and didn’t know the letters of the alphabet, let alone how to spell his name. In 6 weeks, he was spelling his nickname, in 6 months, he was spelling his entire name, & address. In 2 yrs, by the time the young man was in the 2nd grade, he was reading on a 2nd grade. ALL I did, was read to the kids at night before bedtime, work on homework together, made the kids feel safe…It was truly that simple. Unfortunately, when he went home 6 yrs ago, his reading progress stopped…I second the thought that parents MUST do their part - but they aren’t going to. I wish someone could figure out how to successfully educate this folks in spite of the fact that their parents aren’t doing their job…

By School Supporter

September 8, 2008 10:53 PM | Link to this

Oldprof writes, “There-problem solved.” What happened to consolidating Dayton metro districts? Oldprof usually includes this among his silver bullets.

By Oldprof

September 8, 2008 9:56 PM | Link to this

Hey Viet Vet—thank you for your service. Now can we talk? How do you know, in a low-performing school, who are the competent teachers and who are the rotters? The principal ought to know, but it’s a low-performing school so the principal can’t be trusted. The fourth-grade teacher whose students aren’t performing might be brilliant but is saddled with kids who didn’t learn anything in grades K-3; the underperforming kindergarten class might have been entirely composed of children who didn’t know their own names and had a vocabulary of 25 words upon entry. Look, if you were serving today in Iraq and you had to work with inadequate gear (like, I regret to say, our troops really have had to do!) then would you blame the soldiers when the mission suffered? I apprecaite the common-sense attitude, but it’s not that simple; blacksmiths can shape their material precisely, but the material that teachers have to work with can fight back.

By urban_girl75

September 8, 2008 7:30 PM | Link to this

DPS teachers are the hardest working teachers I know. Teachers differentiate instruction for most of their students because so many are working at a much lower level than their current grade. I still don’t understand how students continue to move through the system and they are unable to read. Studies show that children who are not reading by age 7 or 8 will struggle with reading throughout life. With studies reporting information like this, why do school districts choose to ignore the information? More emphasis needs to be placed on the lower primary grades to make sure children are reading. DPS scrambles and puts literacy teachers with the 3rd grade students since that is the first big testing grade. It makes more sense to help prevent a huge problem when reading struggles can be recognized early on. There are a lot of things out of the teacher’s control. We can teach our hearts out but when parents refuse to retain or refuse to attend meetings, read to their children or even speak with their children what are the other options? So many children are neglected that they can’t focus completely on school. Until parents and kids step up and accept responsibility then urban schools will continue to struggle.

By Laura

September 8, 2008 6:54 PM | Link to this

OK, VietVet, what are you going to do if you fire “Group A teachers” and replace them with “Group B teachers” and they don’t get the results you want so you fire them and hire “Group C teachers” and they don’t “succeed” so you fire them and hire “Group D teachers” and it goes on and on. How many teacher’s lives would you destroy in the quest for success in a situation where it is more likely than not that the teachers are not the real problem? Do you really believe that all (or even most) of the hundreds of teachers in DPS are incompetent? And if we were in the public sector, most of us would actually be getting bonuses (think CEO’s of major companies who post losses and then are given millions in bonuses) and being paid vast amounts of overtime for the many hours we work over our paid workday.

By Old Teach

September 8, 2008 4:32 PM | Link to this

Just today we got a student back who was kicked out of the charter school they were attending because of their behavior.

By deb

September 8, 2008 12:14 PM | Link to this

Why is does it appear that it is always the teacher’s fault??? The editorial this morning mentioned that 2 schools had administrators changed, staff changed(& they had to attend extra professional development when accepting to teach in those buildings), and the curriculum changed. Four years later, the scores are lower….the only thing that did NOT change & was the common denominator was the student population. I am not saying that these students that attend DPS cannot or do not want to learn….It needs to be done in a different manner. Does anybody realize what the student population looks like at Wilbur Wright these last 2 years? It is composed of the students that used to go to Fairview Middle before closing last year and the students that the PK-8 buildings are transferring out due to behavior issues. Where does WW send their students who are behavior issues??? There isn’t anywhere - they have to come up with creative approaches to address these needs.

By VietVet

September 8, 2008 11:23 AM | Link to this

Close down the chronic schools that underperform. Fire the staff and have the state rehire competent people.Those fired should not be allowed to apply for employment within the same state and other states should be able to track via the computer network, those poor performers so that the problems won’t be able to infect other schools in other states.Educators should be held accountable for performance just like the private sector.They are not special people. If you are an educator and can’t educate, find another profession.

By School Watcher

September 8, 2008 8:57 AM | Link to this

Nobody waste more money than our public schools. The best example is the Mad River School district hosting Obama this Tuesday for a campaign stop. This closed event is a clear violation of the Ohio Revised Code 3313.17 “public schools are not allowed to engage in candidate or ballot issues” Obama doesn’t spend a dime yet gets to indoctrinate our students with his political agenda all at taxpayers expense. When will the legislature start shutting down public schools for wasting money like this? Why don’t the same rules apply to both?

By Davidss2

September 8, 2008 8:27 AM | Link to this

Luckie’s statement that the poor performing schools should have new principals and teachers overlooks that the problem usually is the kids and parents. Can we reconstitute the kids and parents who attend the school? Maybe we can send three fourths to Mad River, Kettering, and Oakwood and bus in students from those districts. Do you think the scores will rise? I do. And the scores in those districts will drop unless the parents are held accountable for feeding, nurturing, and educating their kids at home.

By Oldprof

September 8, 2008 8:12 AM | Link to this

Nice editorial, Scott. But look: if we are going to require all children to attend school, there will have to be schools that will take all of them. Here, that’s DPS. If you want to improve schools, (1) abandon the “choice” myth and create one system (2) fund it generously (3) increase faculty-student ratio (4) increase schools’ authority to discipline students. There—problem solved.

By Mary

September 8, 2008 7:53 AM | Link to this

Scott, when I read the editorial this morning, I thought that must have been some of your new work. Good job. I note you mentioned that when a school’s staff had been changed, results did not improve. That indicates the root causes of poor performance were not solved, or possibly, “bad” staff was replaced with another “bad” staff. So the big question is what are the root causes of poor performance - poverty, the environment of poverty, the school environment, poor health, intrinsic learning disabilities, lack of motivation, or poorly trained staff. Who knows and why aren’t they being listened to? I am all for closing or drasticly changing schools that do not perform whether public or charter, but those taking action should understand why schools do not get the results. Perhaps those taking action are sometimes part of the problem.