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Home > Blogs > Flyer Connection: University of Dayton sports > Archives > 2012 > February > 01 > Entry
Flyers’ issues are tough to solve
I heard a lot of predictions in the preseason about how many wins Dayton would be able to muster this year, and most seemed to fall in the 15-18 category.
All those who forecasted a victory total in that range are looking pretty smart after an 83-73 home loss to Duquesne, the Flyers’ third-straight setback.
I’ve got to admit, I adjusted my expectations after the team’s surprising start. Beating Minnesota for the Old Spice Classic crown and then starting Atlantic 10 play with wins over probably the three best teams in Saint Louis, Temple and Xavier left me thinking UD had a pretty high ceiling.
But reality is starting to set in. The Flyers are sorely missing forward Josh Benson and the athleticism he would bring inside. They’re getting carved up defensively, and while they do play with great effort, they don’t have the inside quickness to be get consistent stops.
Even their guards are getting beat off the dribble too much, which forces the bigs to help and either leads to an easy put-back or a kick out for a 3-pointer.
It doesn’t look like it’s going to get any better, either. The Flyers play four of their next five on the road.
One thing that would help would be the return to form of Paul Williams. He’s an astonishing 2-for-23 from the floor in his last three games. He’s a three-year starter, and I even voted for him in my A-10 preseason ballot as a third-team all-conference pick. When I joked with him before the season that he’d better not let me down, he quipped, “That might not be high enough.”
I don’t think he’s disengaged. That’s sort of his personality, never gets too high or too low. I don’t remember him ever really showing emotion on the floor in games or at practice.
But his confidence appears to have hit bedrock. He always had a flat shot, and it takes great belief in yourself to overcome a fundamental flaw. Williams looks like he’s seriously questioning himself now.
Chris Johnson also is on the enigma side. After going for 17 points at St. Joe’s and 20 points and 12 rebounds against Rhode Island, he was a meager 1-for-6 from the field and 0-for-4 on 3-pointers against the Dukes. Consistency is not his strong suit.
You gotta love Matt Kavanaugh’s desire to compete, though. He’s limited physically, of course, but you can succeed at the A-10 level with a center like him.
And I wouldn’t trade Kevin Dillard for any point guard in the league.
But the 4 spot without Benson is a puzzle, and you add up the aforementioned issues and what do you get? A team that seems destined to finish in the 15-18 win range.
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By RememberRogerBrown
February 2, 2012 2:35 AM | Link to this
Aside from losing Benson, UD’s greatest loss this year was being unable to retain recruit LaDontae Henton. I watched him in person score 33 points including 24 in the first half against the U of South Florida last Saturday and he is exactly what the Flyer’s are missing——a physical but athletic player who rebounds, defends and can score inside and out. He played all 40 minutes Saturday and he’s in such great shape he didn’t look like he even broke a sweat!
By null
February 2, 2012 8:06 AM | Link to this
Playing with great effort? Great effort wouldn’t entail Duquesne getting an open look from 3 whenever they wanted.
By slag
February 2, 2012 8:14 AM | Link to this
No doubt they miss both recruits…When you dump a stiff loser like Staten and lose 2 big-time recruits but get a guy in the French kid who would never have even sniffed a scholarship in normal times, then you add 4 players in Hill,Kavs, Oliver (although not at as much), and Luke who hardly played last year because of the same reasons killing them now in DEFENSE, then it’s a recipe for disaster..We’re asking those 5 players to man your entire front line and there are HS teams out there that are more athletic, better jumpers, and better defenders…..I think the 3 teams they just got beat by also have the 3 best coaches in the A10 and those guys know the UD players and just exposed them totally….Archie Miller has done a phenominal job with this team but they’re gassed now and exposed.
By Jeremiah Wright
February 2, 2012 8:19 AM | Link to this
Wins and Losses were so 50 years ago, we are all winners in the eyes of god, now let’s have orange slices and drink capri suns.
By sec 312
February 2, 2012 8:51 AM | Link to this
I got a bunch to say but I will leave it at this, we can’t guard worth a cr**!
By FaithfulFlyer65
February 2, 2012 8:52 AM | Link to this
I respect Archie for accepting most of the blame for the disappointing results the last 3 games. That’s something that the previous coach would never do. However, here’s some observations. (1) I believe that Archie got out planned and out coached the last 3 games. He’s learning, so that’s nothing to be ashamed of. (2) it appears that every time opponents get the ball in the middle all the flyers defenders leave their man and converged on the ball leaving perimeter shooters wide open for an easy pass and wide open shots (3) I don’t buy that the flyers aren’t deep enough in players. Many teams only play 7 or 8 deep and have their better players playing 35 minutes or more. That all said, I said at the start that I thought 17 wins would be a good season, and it’s looking like that may be about right, so I can be disappointed after their great start to the season, but not upset.
By Bubba
February 2, 2012 9:38 AM | Link to this
I agree that whenever the Dukes got dribble penetration, all the flyer defenders ran to the ball leaving perimeter shooters open everywhere. Also, why did Luke only play 10 minutes? I know that he isn’t the greatest defensive player, but neither is anyone else on this team and at least Luke can bury some 3 pointers and it’s beginning to look like the only way this team is going to win another game is if they can outscore their opponent. Furthermore, I didn’t understand AM’s substitutions. As soon as the Flyers took the lead with about 10 minutes to go, he took out the guys who got them there and within a couple minutes they were out of it again.
By Raoul
February 2, 2012 9:40 AM | Link to this
I think the Flyers are getting beat right now by phenomenal shooting by the opponents. It would help to cover the corners when the opposing guards penetrate and then dish it outside. I think our personnel would be better off in a zone type defense. We are getting killed by 3 pointers. Go Flyers! Hey Null…this is not the place for your childish comments. Grow up and leave the commentary to us adults.
By Right On Raoul
February 2, 2012 10:52 AM | Link to this
The beatings they just received from the last 3 losses will be minor compared to the beat downs they will get on the road. Xavier’s two guards are averaging over 16 points a game. Their freshman and Redford are also playing great since the Dayton game. Look for a 20 point to 30 point beat down at the Cintas Center. If you think the shooting by the opponents is phenomenal at UD arena how do you think it will be when they play at home. Good example George Washington torched the threes when they played Xavier at George Washington but Xavier still won. I would expect the other A10 teams will do the same to UD when they play them at home. BG has ruined the UD program for at least the next three years.
By sec 312
February 2, 2012 10:52 AM | Link to this
65 and Bubba have it right, AM has been out coached last 3 games. Those guys can coach. When you need a 3 late Luke is on the bench, what the heck? We killed mo with our sub pattern last night and in fact I had a hard time understanding Archies thinking. If you can’t play 35 minutes something is wrong with the conditioning program. Talent is not there but defense is heart and hustle and sorry I am not seeing it. Ud has now lost 4 games they should have won, maybe its even with some of the wins, one thing is for sure this team refuses to play defense. They can’t cut off the baseline, they can’t slide down and cover, poor rotation, they can’t close out with a high hand, sorry its sad. And its possible UD might lose 4 out 5.
By slag
February 2, 2012 11:47 AM | Link to this
Faithful Flyer, Totally disagree with you on the depth. Find me other teams that have 2 guys in the starting 5 that sat the pine 90% of the time last year with one of the guys (Luke) who was substituted every single chance they could get because his D is the worst in the country. Take your 3 guys off the bench and 2 of them never played a lick here last year in Hill and the French kid…..Find me other teams with dire straits like that…..Add in the fact that Gregory destroyed, absolutely destroyed, this program with unskilled BB players. Who cares that he played good against the OOC teams that never saw Dayton or had time to scout them? The guy was a .500 coach in the A10 which means you don’t get to NCAA tournaments unless you do well in the conference. Gee, what a freakin’ novel idea that the little, POS Napoloon look-a-like should have adopted. Add in further fact/proof you got 1-2 guys,YES 1-2 PLAYERS, that even know how to dribble a freakin’ basketball..ARE YOU FREAKIN’ KIDDING ME???????? And Archie Miller is suppose to come in with marginal talent, at best, and 8-9 players max and turn the program around???The guy should win coach of the year in the A10 if he just gets to .500 in the conference…. Some of you need to think, really and truly THINK, before posting or being allowed to.
By wake up
February 2, 2012 12:34 PM | Link to this
wake up call to all you think UD should dominate the A-10 Its not so easy to win in the A10 now is it? Am will be lucky to be 500 the next few years. Any good AAU coach could out coach him now, situations and players on the floor at the time last night was a joke
By dw
February 2, 2012 12:41 PM | Link to this
Go slag! Good comments about the current state of the Flyers. Couldn’t agree more about the lack of talent on this years team. BG recruited athletes-not basketball players. Other than KD no one has any basketball instincts or the ability to penetrate and take the ball to the rim. LF is a good example of a one dimensional player who’s only contribution is the ability to shoot 3’s, CJ still won’t make any consistent effort to drive to the basket, and RH and DO can’t score or dribble and are too slow to defend outside the paint. Even if we had LeDonte Henton, BG probably wouldn’t have given him the opportunity to use his talent. Face it, this years team is not going to win the A10 or make the NCAA tournament. However we’re starting to see some positive changes in the direction of the program and hopefully brighter days are ahead. Go Flyers!
By TJ
February 2, 2012 1:00 PM | Link to this
Right On Raul sure this is all BG’s fault and BG’s fault the program is going to suck the next 3 years. I guarantee you one thing if BG were here you wouldn’t see 3 teams in a row score 50 points in a half against our defense. I like Archie and I agree with a lot of people who say most teams play 7-8 players deep. Everyone wanted a shorter bench….This is what you get with a 7-8 man bench. Is it possible BG knew what he was doing keeping his players fresh? I guess we can blame the fast fading Flyer’s A10 losses on BG too. Heck we might as well start blaming Oliver Purnell and Jim O’Brien too!
By UD Dad
February 2, 2012 1:42 PM | Link to this
What is getting tiresom is the announcers whether on radio or TV saying how UD’s opponents are poor shooting three point teams and then have them shoot the lights out against the Flyers. Maybe they are poor shooting because their shots are contested. But even a decent high school player can shoot 50% fron three when nobody is within eight feet of him.
By FaithfulFlyer65
February 2, 2012 1:46 PM | Link to this
Re: Slag’s question, rather than take up a lot of space listing the many teams, how about if I just mention one—-Kentucky. Check out their lineup and see how many freshman are starting. Even those who sat on UD’s bench last season have more experience than freshman. I am a devoted flyer fan, and I have said over and over that Archie has done a great job with what he has, but he isn’t perfect and I still call it as I see it.
By UD Dad Correct
February 2, 2012 1:48 PM | Link to this
The current problems can be blamed on BG, Oliver Purnell and Jim Obrien. Three terrible coaches in a row are too much for a program to endure and still prosper. The other A10 teams are hoping AM is just as bad a choice. Not sure yet but I give him credit for accepting resposiblity for the losses and not complain like BG did that it was all the players fault. UD lost Staten and two of their top recruits that would be playing this year due to BG leaving. Look how well he is doing at GT. He won’t be there long.
By RudyFlyer
February 2, 2012 2:37 PM | Link to this
@slag - you are dead on correct in your assessment. @FlyerFaithful - comparing talent level here to that at Kentucky is a joke right? Miller only has two players on this team that could start for any other A10 squad, Johnson and Dillard. And to those who were critical of Johnson last night, I ask who was the only Flyer playing defense last night? Kavanaugh is greatly improved but wouldn’t start for any good team. Fabrizius is a one dimensional player AT BEST, Williams and Oliver are underachieving twins, and there is no other point guard on the team and they really suffer with Dillard out of the game. Hill and the “french kid” will improve and #25 may actually become a good player but they would play for period for a decent team. Why is this happening, well you all know the answer. Brian Gregory screwed this program as bad as Jim O’Brien did and it will take time to become a 20 win team. Miller is learning his job but his upside is out of site and in four years he will gone on to greener pastures. And to all of you with the Brian Donoher jokes, stop. His father and family have to live thru this embarrassment, so simply STFU.
By TJ
February 2, 2012 3:07 PM | Link to this
UD Dad evidently you havent been around this program very long. You’d think Depaul would have a kicka** program. In Chicago…highly ranked team in the 80’s. Look what they’ve done since because of having ONE bad coach. JOB ruined this program when he came in….Oliver Purnell put some of the pieces back together. Brian Gregory put the keys in the ignition and has Dayton on the National basketball map. Now its Archie’s turn to put the car in drive and keep it going. As far as losing Staten thats the best thing that’s ever happened to this program. I hope he whines as much down there as he did at UD and Huggy slaps him down a few pegs.
By Ponyfoot
February 2, 2012 3:11 PM | Link to this
I saw Henton the other night vs Rutgers. Halfway through his first year and he is already better then any UD front-court player.BG may have liked athletes, but there aren’ alot of them on the current roster.
By FaithfulFlyer@aol.com
February 2, 2012 3:22 PM | Link to this
@ RudyFlyer-Slag asked me to name a team, so I did. He didn’t mention anything about talent levels and there are plenty of other in-experienced teams out there—a few of them are in the A-10 and have already beaten Dayton. I root for the Flyers and am as complimentary about Archie as you guys. But with all the non-talent that you guys talk about, they did beat St. Louis, X, Temple and Alabama so don’t tell me that it is that bad. Some days it shows up and other days it doesn’t, It’s the coach’s job to keep the players motivated and playing hard. Overall, I rate Archie above average, but he makes mistakes just as any first year coach would. You can disagree with me, but I simply pointed out what I believe some of those mistakes were in the last 3 games based on what I saw. That’s my opinion, you can have yours.
By food nutt
February 2, 2012 3:52 PM | Link to this
We only have 1 player that can handle the ball…
By slag
February 2, 2012 3:59 PM | Link to this
FlyerFaithful, Please tell me you posted this on a major crack high down off lower Main street. You’re comparing UD with KY??ARE YOU SERIOUS?? Our 1-8 guys look like this actually:1-5….11,12,13..Because our last 3 guys plus Frenchie, a late scholarship offer, were ZERO/NADA/GOOSE EGG/NILL nothing last year and got more splinters up their rectum…..None of them had top 15-20 offers outside of Kavs who is showing people why he’s a pretty good offensive player… We don’t have a player on this team, outside of Dillard and that’s a stretch, who could play past #8-9 at KY…We don’t even have enough scholarship players to run a spirited practice and scout team to prepare for our next opponents.. We have 3 players on this team that get subbed for offensive/defensive substitutions at 12 minute marks of a game. Ninety percent of teams that do sub for this do it in the last 3-4 minutes but Archie has to do it at the 12 minute mark. Why? Because the lackluster play of guys both offensively and defensively has to be addressed per possession…..I’ve watched ball for 35 years and I’ve never seen a team win games with mirrors the way UD has or the variance they show in ability….Now that they’re in the conference they get exposed as much as a $5.00 hooker….
By RudyFlyer
February 2, 2012 4:04 PM | Link to this
@FlyerFaithful - you picked Kentucky and not some other inexperienced team. Can you even name another inexperienced team with 8 scholorship players and who actually are relevent? X, St Louis, and Alabama are not good teams and were beaten at home. XU has talent but hasn’t been the same since the “fight”. Temple is the best of the bunch. Mistakes are made because these guys run out of gas trying to play a perfect game every night. No size with talent on the team today and only ONE point guard. I know its your opinion and you are entitled to it but you are watching a different game that I am. This team is one of the less talented Flyer teams I have seen in quite some time.
By slag
February 2, 2012 4:12 PM | Link to this
Well said RudyFlyer.And,yes, hope everybody does STFU about Brian..Personal friend as well as the family…Can’t imagine what they’re all going through…..If you can’t stand him then just feel for his wife and kids……
By sec 312
February 2, 2012 4:24 PM | Link to this
What is surprising is people say no experience. UD starts 3 seniors, a 1000 pt jr, another jr who did play some last year. Sorry I don’t buy that excuse. Real problem is UD has underachieving seniors ( not CJ )
By FaithfulFlyer65
February 2, 2012 4:36 PM | Link to this
I’m glad to find that sec 312 and bubba seem to agree with me. I also believe that Archie would not fall back on the excuses that slag and Rudy Flyer are throwing out for him. As he said in Thursday’s DDN, he accepts the blame. I agree that this is one of the less talented flyer teams in a long time, but they are what they are, so stop making excuses for them. They have enough talent to win at St. Joe, and beat Rhode Island and the Dukes at home.
By Darius
February 2, 2012 4:39 PM | Link to this
This is a big Flyerfan comin from Buckeye town, central OHIO to be exact where everybody sucks bucks & they ant never heard of the Atlantic 10. They love that Matta’s dirty draws. I think Thad Matta is a punk who is too scared to play Dayton, Xavier & Cincy. 60 miles away & wont play them, punk moth_er! Man what the hell is wrong with Dayton? Lost 3 in a row to scrubbs. I cant point fingers becuz I didnt see the games but where is the high flying Chris Wright-block everything in site defense. When he was there they played dee like crazy now they ball but they dont have that lock down 1990 Chicago BULL dee they use to play.I got mad respect for Dayton though becuz I they got Archie Miller, Sean Miller’s brother. Those cats got mad basketball smarts. As far as Brian Gregory he knew they needed athletes at Dayton & he got them. I got more respect for BG then Thad Matta BUT i will never forget when Dayton was about to play the Tarheels in the NIT Championship, man Brian Gregory was scared strait. I will never ever forget how freakin scared he was. Dude u could see it in his face. Im a Daytonian survivin in the flatlands know as Columbus & i want to give a shot out to the DAYTON FLYERS! THEY WILL GET IT TOGETHER!
By Bubba
February 2, 2012 5:44 PM | Link to this
Hey RudyFlyer, since you say that St. Louis is not a good team, how many points do you think the flyers will beat them by this Saturday?
By Slag
February 2, 2012 5:51 PM | Link to this
Da Pimp, huh? Boy this ought to be ” look who’s calling the kettle black”. Son, you ever have a family member commit a crime, go to jail, get a DUI? Ever had a friend who has a family member do any of the above? Ever know anybody at all who has a relative, family member, etc that did any of the above? Well, I’m sure you did. Did you ever feel bad, I mean really bad, for that family member, friend, relative, relative of a friend, relative of a relative of a friend? Next question..Since I know you nodded yes to one or maybe several of those questions above, were all of those ones who committed all those sinful acts, did you ever ever ever forgive them? Did you ever say “screw what everyone says about this person because I know they’re good and I know that the loved one of that person who committed that crime is someone I care about??? Now, I know you’re nodding yes because your totally ignorant post and stance put you in no other position. Next question: if you were with that friend/ family member/ relative who either committed that sin or who was the loved one of that crook/ felon/ dope head, etc , and a person walking by said something really bad about that person that you either care about or who cares about that “crook/felon/dope addict”, what would you do??? Would you agree with them and laugh right along or would you want to knock the f__k out of them because you actually and truly know the person in question and know they’re really good?? Hopefully, this little lesson I put you through opened that ignorant and self-righteous attitude of yours and maybe, just maybe, you’ll use that peon of a brain next time you post about the transgression of a really good person.
By RudyFlyer
February 2, 2012 7:40 PM | Link to this
@FlyerFaithful - OK, I give up, you win. But, before I do give up completely, let me say this “what did you expect Miller to say other than it’s his fault”? He took the job willingly. As for my Donoher comments, this story was treated as “breaking news” on Channel 7 last night. If this were someone not Don Donoher’s son, this wouldn’t have even made the news. As for him being a guardian of children, what does that mean? He isn’t charged with having sexual activity with a student or anyone connected with Fairmont HS. If he did, then all the rightous comments are valid. But so far it appears he has only harmed his family and probably lost any credibility in the community. Based on what we know today, isn’t that enough?
By FaithfulFlyer65
February 2, 2012 10:08 PM | Link to this
That’s okay RudyFlyer. We are all entitled to our opinions, and that doesn’t mean that anyone is right or wrong. They’re just our opinions. As far as Don Donoher’s son, I didn’t make any comments about that situation, and I have no opinion on it. Even if I did, I wouldn’t be talking about it here.
By bprichard
February 4, 2012 5:21 AM | Link to this
Despite the struggles of the last three games, this is still one of my favorite recent editions of the Flyers. I don’t think effort is there problem. They are extremely thin around the perimeter, with only spot up three shooters with limited defensive skills. And losing Benson as a help defender has been constantly. I think Kavanaugh has really proven himself this year, but he doesn’t have quick feet on the defensive end. They exceeded expectations at the beginning of they year, so the comedown for these losses is rough, especially at home where we’re not accustomed to losing. Throughout the year, every player has come through, from Dillard on down to Hill. But each player has holes in his game that make it impossible for them to all click every game. Considering the makeup of the next recruiting class, perimeter depth looks like it might continue to be a problem. Things are looking atypically strong down low with the addition of the two gents from Northland. So we’re back to where we were at the beginning of the season, in a transition year. Hopefully they can finish the year strong and provide some more pleasant surprises. Go Flyers!