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Hall of Fame baseball writer Hal McCoy has retired from the Dayton Daily News after covering the Cincinnati Reds for 37 years. Hal's blog, though, will continue to be a must-read for Reds fans. He'll share his thoughts on the team this season and will file updates from Great American Ball Park. You also can catch Hal in print every Sunday in his popular Ask Hal columnHome > Blogs > The Real McCoy | Cincinnati Reds baseball news > Archives > 2008 > August > 12 > Entry
Dunn cared and Dunn worked
It was Sunday, long after the Cincinnati Reds lost their sixth straight game, long after they lost for the 14th time in 16 games.
Most of the players were dressed and gone, fleeing the scene of the carnage.
There were, though, five players gathered in a corner discussing the mess the team made this year, the embarrassment of losing, what it would take to improve the stifling situation.
The players were: Paul Bako, Jerry Hairston, Josh Fogg, Jolbert Cabrera and …
And … Adam Dunn.
Yes, Adam Dunn. So many fans misread Dunn. They thought him lazy. Have you ever tried moving 6-foot-7 and 275 pounds of muscle and bone? Ain’t easy, pal.
We know he was a defensive liability. We know he struck out too much. But to label him as a guy who didn’t care was unfair just because of his easy-going demeanor.
Nobody was more embarrassed than Dunn when he botched or bungled a play. Nobody was more embarrassed than Dunn when he struck out with two on and two out in a one-run game.
He said it, admitted it. He told the media he was awful at times. In 36 years of covering the Reds, I never met a more honest or self-deprecating guy. He never made excuses. He took the blame, sometimes blame he didn’t deserve.
So it wasn’t surprising that Dunn was one of the players holding a post-game koffee klatch to discuss the many woes of the team.
And the next day Dunn was gone. Traded to become the biggest snake in Arizona.
My take? Big mistake. He won’t be replaced. Ever. To me, his home runs, his RBIs, his on-base percentage, his walks and his fearsome presence overrode his defensive deficiencies and his strikeouts.
And I’m weary of hearing people say, “They never won with him and Griffey in the eight years they were here.” No, they didn’t. And they didn’t win with anybody else, either. Blaming Dunn and Griffey is absurd. Blame management for not surrounding two superb players with quality pitching and quality defense.
Now they’re gone, the team moves on. Question? Does it move up or does it move down? It appears it will be down before it’s up and it is going to take years to start the upward trend.
Said manager Dusty Baker, who had two superstars when he took the Reds job and now has none (maybe a couple in the making), tries to put the positive spin on it by saying, “This is our new beginning and there is always a period of adjustment. Trades like that change the dynamics of the team and it takes a while.”
A long, long, long, long while at the pace the Reds move.
Jay Bruce knows that more than anybody. Dunn and Griffey were his two best friends on the team.
When he arrived in the visiting clubhouse in Pittsburgh’s PNC Park Tuesday and walked to his locker, he was unaware that he was using the locker Dunn used during his Pittsburgh visits.
“Really? All right. Didn’t know that,” said Bruce. “Pure coincidence.” But there was a stack of color actions photos of Dunn on Bruce’s shelf and that was no coincidence.
“He gave ‘em to me and I just decided to bring ‘em,” said Bruce. “I’m absolutely going to miss Dunn, even more so than Griffey. We had a relationship before I got to the big leagues — working out together in Texas during the offseason.”
Working out? With Dunn? Fans thought Dunn, the big oaf, never worked out, never worked hard. “He worked his tail off,” said Bruce.
“We’re still going to be friends, but this place is a lot different now,” Bruce added. He could have added, “A lot, lot, lot, lot, lot different.”
“We’re moving forward and we have to accept it for what it is and the way it is,” Bruce said. “You can’t give up just because people are gone. You have to move forward. Nothing stops for anyone in this game. The show must go on.”
Did he mean sideshow?
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By EcotteGrori
October 12, 2008 6:10 AM | Link to this
When I try to upload avatar in .JPG i see : Fatal error: Call to undefined function: imagecreatefromjpeg() and avatar is not saved. With avatars in .gif everythink is OK.
By michael
August 14, 2008 12:12 PM | Link to this
First disagreement- I never said Dunn was lazy. I do think Jr at times was lethargic, and I’ll stand by that. 2nd- Pete was the guy who was on base when the others were at bat. Can’t drive them home if they don’t get on. Hustle gets you on base and makes runs. 3rd- Pete Rose built the team that won the World Series in 1990. Timb, I appreciate your opinions, and I somewhat agree with some of them. Pete was just a piece of the Big Red Machine, but I would call him the ignition switch….a pretty important part!
By timb
August 14, 2008 11:55 AM | Link to this
Well, the problem with using Pete as your “gauge” is that Pete was the third or fourth most productive player on his team (after Morgan, Bench, and Perez). He also was an abysmal manager and Marty pimped for him as both player and manager. Teams don’t win an offense of “hustlers”; they win with an offense of producers. If those producers sprint on and off the field or run hard on pop-ups is a non-sequitor. Your interpretation of my love for Griffey is completely mis-placed. The trade was appropriate and well-considered. Ken has slowed down in his later years and cannot play CF and should never bat third. Nonetheless, your critique of the two best offensive players on the Reds focuses on the silly points of “how much they cared” or “they were lazy”. Simply put, as Hal demonstrated conclusively, the problem with team is “laziness”, it’s lack of overall talent. Personally, if the Diamondbacks deal includes the catcher, then color me very happy. Owings is a future third starter in a good rotation; Buck may be an ace in five years, and, if they filled the catching hole, then count me excited. For all of that, they should have re-signed Dunn. they cannot replace his offense with the sort of hustling judy-hitting small ball b.s. players the fans of Cincinnati and its announcers want. You cannot play in GABP without power.
By Dunno
August 14, 2008 10:23 AM | Link to this
Dunn had significant liabilities, but he had a huge upside, too. Halbert is right. This team will be lousy for a long time more, Jocketty or no Jocketty. When billionaires use up a team to make money and increase equity, and when they know their fan base is too stupid to demand more, then there is no reason to improve. The loss of revenue by low attendance does not matter to Castellini-the inevitable growth of equity does matter. If you want a good team, get a good owner. This guy is another Lindner, and that is why Dunn never heard a word; he just got dumped.
By michael
August 14, 2008 8:31 AM | Link to this
I would have to question your baseball opinions based on facts only. Griffey hits .245 this season, misses a whole lot of games, eats up a lot of $$, and Reds are in last place for most of his time in Cincinnati. What did he do for the Reds? I have no disdain for Griffey, as he is a HOF player, a good man, and was outstanding for the Mariners. However, I am a Reds fan. I don’t care what he did in Seattle. Ryan Freel? He is by far not my favorite, but one cannot question his hustle. Additionally, whats wrong with using Pete Rose as a gauge? I do roll with Marty on that.
By donb51
August 13, 2008 5:41 PM | Link to this
Just for the record, tj, if you read my post carefully, I mentioned 8 OFFENSIVE players on the field at any one time. The most prominent lineup of 8 OFFENSIVE players on any particular night came to 26 million. Dunn and Griff were paid 21 and 1/2 million of that. The rest of the six guys in the lineup split the other 4 and 1/2 million with B. Phillips getting most of the that! The other 5 were making at or below 450K a piece and you expect them to perform at the same “superb” level? Read the posts before you comment. I wasn’t talking total payroll, only offensive payroll on the field at any particular night.
By BIRDIE41
August 13, 2008 4:32 PM | Link to this
Hal, I agree with your “Dunn cared and worked” article 100%. and to those who did it please do not mention Valentin in the same sentence as Adam Dunn.Valentin has been on the bench most of his career for a reason and he should have been the catcher released instead of David Ross.It is really hard to figure out the Reds thinking on that one.Also if Dunn did say he wanted 125 million he did it to say he wanted out from the hapless Reds and their terrible management(especially castellini)
By Brarhopper
August 13, 2008 3:57 PM | Link to this
michael, I wondered the same thing…is timb Matt with a wig? They both have that blog cop/critic role goin on.
By timb
August 13, 2008 3:02 PM | Link to this
Michael, are you just a football fan in disguise? I won’t question your enjoyment of the internet or the Reds, but your baseball opinions are in need of a serious education. We could start you with any of David Halberstam’s books or a subscription to the Baseball Prospectus website or just explain how Ken Griffey created more runs in his first season with the Reds than Ryan Freel has for in his career. Funny thing is I don’t disdain Ryan. I have oodles of disdain for marty and his “smallball” ways. I also, as usual, find it difficult to remember a ballplayer Marty liked who wasn’t the reincarnation of Rose.
By timb
August 13, 2008 1:51 PM | Link to this
I’ve got to say that TJ is the smartest guy/gal on this page. Best comment ever.
By michael
August 13, 2008 1:44 PM | Link to this
Is this timb guy really just Matt in disguise?
By timb
August 13, 2008 1:36 PM | Link to this
“By Brarhopper August 12, 2008 9:37 PM Hey Dunner, welcome to Phoenix. First AB, strike out. Get used to it, AZ fans!” Suppose they got used to him being on base three out five plate appearances? By the way, who told Reds fans they should care how a guy makes outs? A pop-up, a can of corn, a line-out, a strike out, these are outs. If the gentleman in question is going to hit 40 bombs and have an OBP over .370, then who cares how he makes outs?
By michael
August 13, 2008 1:34 PM | Link to this
Not Dunns fault we can’t win, but we are smart enough to know that we can’t pay him to stay. We didn’t win with him in 8 years, and thats what Reds fans want.
By TJ
August 13, 2008 1:26 PM | Link to this
Just for the record Dunn made about 13 million, Griff about 8.5 so that is less than a third of the payroll…… Adam Dunn’s season averages: 101 runs, 137 hits, 40 HR, 96 RBIs, 113 BB, .247 Avg., .900 OPS. By far he was the most productive offensive player the Reds have had in the past decade. Maybe it was time to let him go ($125 million), but don’t blame him for the Reds losing ways. The guy was an animal for the team, a farm system raised talent that put butts in seats and balls in the Ohio. I hope the Big Donkey gets cheers when he comeback to GABP next year. He carried this team for eight seasons. They still sucked, but they would have been a hell of a lot worse if it weren’t for Adam Dunn. The Rays were trying to get him at the deadline and they are in first place of the toughest division in baseball. Shouldn’t that tell you something? Who is next for bitter Reds fans to drive out of town? Brandon Phillips strikes out a lot. Jay Bruce is streaky. Johnny Cueto can throws 400 pitches a game. You can’t scapegoat Dunner or Griff any more so it has to land on someone, right? I’ve been a Reds fan my whole life but collectively we must have the baseball IQ of a seven year old girl.
By donb51
August 13, 2008 9:58 AM | Link to this
“Blame management for not surrounding two superb players with quality pitching and quality defense.” How can you surround them with quality when the “two superb players” were sucking up over 75% of the payroll of any combination of 8 offensive players that Dusty put in the lineup on any particular day? Why not just get quality players period across the board? Todd put it best, I think. Don’t blame us fans for stating the obvious over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over (is that EIGHT overs?) again.
By wizard
August 13, 2008 9:52 AM | Link to this
Agreed Dale 78. Lets see “a line drive hitter…” Oh yeah, Valentin for Dunn, only play him at first base.Then strenthen our outfield with Votto Dickerson and Bruce—much better TEAM!
By michael
August 13, 2008 9:29 AM | Link to this
HuberTucky, I’m with you. It was fun to listen to Marty get excited again. The Reds diplayed a little pep in their step last night! I hope they let Griffey and Dunn go, and embrace the new era.
By DALE 78
August 13, 2008 5:33 AM | Link to this
Are you kidding 125 million , for a player who cannot hit in the clutch and how many years did it take him to get a sacrifice fly . Home runs are nice but 2 out base hits are better .The Reds would be better off if the found line drive hitter ,and played better fundamental baseball .
By save america
August 12, 2008 10:46 PM | Link to this
The value of a ball player is his assets minus his liabilities. Dunn has some good assets but he had severve liabilities also. I was always told you can never knock in as many runs as you will give up if you cannot play defense or run the bases.
By HuberTucky
August 12, 2008 9:59 PM | Link to this
I know it’s just one game and I know it’s just the Pirates (although superior to the Reds in the standings), but I gotta say, I like what I saw tonight in the New Baby Reds Machine!
By Brarhopper
August 12, 2008 9:37 PM | Link to this
Hey Dunner, welcome to Phoenix. First AB, strike out. Get used to it, AZ fans!
By wizard
August 12, 2008 9:02 PM | Link to this
They will also play him at first base, some; as announced on the tube tonight!
By Carl's Little Brother
August 12, 2008 8:58 PM | Link to this
Wizard, I believe the Snakes are going to have Dunn in RF. Agree with your post ShockMonkey 100% but I am afaid we are stuck with the Dust Pan Baker for at least another year. When Dunn and Bob Cast. met in privare over lunch a while back I am sure $$$ were discussed. Remember, Bob C. liked Dunn a lot. So what does that tell you. These Pittsburg guys are bad on XM.
By wizard
August 12, 2008 8:46 PM | Link to this
In addition, Valentin, who I have also recommended at first—just made a very nice play at first. If our mgr. doesn’t get stubborn Valentin at first Bruce/Dickerson and Votto can complete our outfield for the rest of this year, at least.
By wizard
August 12, 2008 8:36 PM | Link to this
And, Hal remember last year when I suggested Dunn should be playing first to you—and you poo-pooed the idea? Well, The diamond backs are going to do it! Had the Reds done it—he’d still be here—and our outfield would be better defensively—and we’d still have his power!
By bigdoc
August 12, 2008 7:58 PM | Link to this
Good writing, Hal! After Dunn’s July, I would have said, Amen! Since he’s 0-for-August, I just don’t know! I’ll always recall his many walk-off homers!
By Nick
August 12, 2008 7:54 PM | Link to this
Hal, I don’t very often disagree with you, but I am not with you in your belief that this trade was a mistake and that the Reds are a long way from being better. You underestimate his defensive weaknesses and overestimate his offensive production. I am watching the Pirates game and saw Dickerson track down a line drive that would have gone to the wall with Dunn. The Pirates would have scored a run and had another runner at second with no outs. Instead, the inning ended with no runs scored. That is what you had with Adam Dunn. Now we can finally work to build an outfield with some speed and an offense that actually hits the ball. My prediction, Dunn will keep up his streak of never playing for a winning team.
By Brarhopper
August 12, 2008 7:37 PM | Link to this
Just when we thought Corey patterson couldn’t get worse…he STOPS in the middle of stealing 3rd base (he obviously had the base stolen) and runs back to 2nd as is dead meat. Honestly, folks. Why haven’t they pulled the trigger on THIS loser? Couldn’t somebody from the Dragons be better?
By ShockMonkey
August 12, 2008 7:24 PM | Link to this
Stop it Hal! Quit being maudlin. Dunn wasn’t coming back next year. No reason to keep him for another seven weeks. I beg to differ we won’t see improvement next year. Jocketty has a wining history and I’m banking he’ll turn this team around. I hope he continues the purge with Patterson and Bako then shows the door to Dusty who has no stinkin’ clue how to fill out a lineup card.
By jsc139
August 12, 2008 7:21 PM | Link to this
Marty just set a record for most commercials in a half-inning in the history of broadcast baseball. He spewed more ad copy than than he did baseball talk. They really turn these guys into corporate shills, and it just keeps getting worse!
By Don
August 12, 2008 6:51 PM | Link to this
“We’re beginning our future now.”- Jim Bowden, 2001 “This is our new beginning.”- Dusty Baker, 2008 The players may change, but the lip service sure doesn’t.
By Don
August 12, 2008 6:50 PM | Link to this
“We’re beginning our future now.”- Jim Bowden, 2001 “This is our new beginning.”- Dusty Baker, 2008 The players may change, but the lip service sure doesn’t.
By nllspc
August 12, 2008 6:48 PM | Link to this
Hal or anyone, What are the usual or probable conditions on these “player to named later” deals? Is it Dunn’s stats for the remainder of the season or how the D-Backs do? or a combination?
By Mike
August 12, 2008 6:39 PM | Link to this
120 million the asking price for Dunn. Yet, we can all remember the ball going over his head, trying to pick up the ball 2-3-4 times,ball going through his legs to the left field wall, the list goes on and on. No, you can’t blame the Reds demise simply on 2 players, Griffey or Dunn. If he thought left field was a nightmare, wait till get acquainted with right field!
By Chas
August 12, 2008 6:29 PM | Link to this
Are you getting senile on us Hal? Griffey and Dunn superb ballplayers? Got to quit smoking that stuff!!
By Chas
August 12, 2008 6:29 PM | Link to this
Are you getting senile on us Hal? Griffey and Dunn superb ballplayers? Got to quit smoking that stuff!!
By Todd
August 12, 2008 6:19 PM | Link to this
Hal, where was this article months or weeks ago? Perhaps it’s my imagination, but it seems you write an article like this “at” us after something like this happnes, almost to shame us…as though trading Dunn or Griffey was the fault of non-appreciative fans. Now the critics of Dunn are supposed to feel guilty and terrible about themselves because he was just a big ol’ Texas Teddy bear and we’ve gone and screwed up the balance of the universe. Same kind of stuff followed the Griffey trade. Not that you bashed these players in you columns, but you helped us formulate our opinions (good or bad, positive or negative) and then subtly beat on us when this happens. Seems inconsistent to me. It’ll be interesting to hear what Martha says tonight at 7.
By Brian
August 12, 2008 6:15 PM | Link to this
Being a lifelong Reds fan I’m delighted as a Phoenix resident and a Dback season ticketholder I’m disgusted. Hal, did you read Bronsons’ quote? Did you see the money Dunn told the clubhouse he wanted? up to 120 million! The Reds can’t afford that for a 1 dimensional player.
By mike cahill
August 12, 2008 5:59 PM | Link to this
It’s tough to face the reality that rebuilding may take seasons before we have a contender. Hal is absolutely right that there was not enough supporting cast. I was of the opinion early this season that we may have finally gotten the needed players in Bruce, Keppinger, Votto and Phillips. It wasn’t enough even though pitching improved, especially the bullpen guys improved. Griffey wasn’t part of the future and he didn’t lead. Dunn is an asset despite the strikeouts but neither a leader nor a clutch guy.And we can sure finish last without Griffey and Dunn and save the $30 million or so. Walt J. may surprise us and use that money to build something sooner rather than later. I’m interested to see if there will be more changes before season’s end.
By Y-City Jim
August 12, 2008 5:40 PM | Link to this
Thanks, Hal. Leadership doesn’t look this way or that way. It takes on many forms and is often unrecognizable to many, which is obvious some things I have seen written. Something to remember the Dunner by: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aooOF_lqGiU&NR=1
By pat
August 12, 2008 5:35 PM | Link to this
Since I live in the phoenix metro area, I am excited that the Dbacks got Dunn. Not sure if it’s enough to overcome the recent LA additions. Let’s hope so. Love to see the Dbacks keep Dunn or the Reds get him back in the winter.
By George
August 12, 2008 5:31 PM | Link to this
Hal, I could not agree more. This will look as bad a letting Paul O’Neil go.