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Hall of Fame baseball writer Hal McCoy is in his 36th year of covering the Cincinnati Reds, the longest tenure for any active writer covering one team. Counting spring training and postseason games, McCoy has covered more than 7,000 major-league baseball games, written close to 18,000 baseball stories and eaten enough hot dogs to give Babe Ruth indigestion.Home > Blogs > The Real McCoy | Cincinnati Reds baseball news > Archives > 2008 > July > 09 > Entry
They’re not batty about Cincinnati
First of all, enough of the oft-repeated and unfounded opinions that Dusty Baker ruined Mark Prior and Kerry Wood when he managed the Cubs.
Knowledgeable folks from Chicago dispute that Baker ruined Wood or Prior. Hey, Wood and Prior dispute it themselves, so that’s good enough for me. Wood remains close friends with Baker.
And by the way, maybe somebody should ruin some more pitchers. The guy Baker supposedly ruined, Wood, recorded his 23rd save of the season against the Reds Wednesday.
Somebody ruin me, please.
It just isn’t true, but fans who believe everything they hear keep repeating it. Both Wood and Prior were experiencing arm problems before Baker even landed in Chicago.
So let’s not transfer those thoughts to Cincinnati and blame Baker for anything that happens to Aaron Harang.
Over the last three years Harang has pitched 211 2/3 innings, 234 1/3 innings and 231 2/3 innings - and Baker wasn’t here. So if something dastardly comes out of the MRI of Harang’s forearm today, don’t blame Dusty.
That said, so much for the Reds becoming born again contenders on this trip.
For those who got excited because the Reds swept four from the Washington Unnaturals, well, those Nationals are like the old Washington Senators, about whom it was once written: “Washington - first in war, first in peace and last in the American League.” (There were in the American League then).
The Reds are now playing Real Baseball teams and, frankly, they aren’t good enough to compete. They aren’t close to being as good as the Cubs and probably not close to being good as the Brewers.
What I feared on this trip was that the Reds might do something goofy like win five or six or four of six and delude themselves and their fans into thinking they can still compete this year for the ol’ gonfalon (ask your dad, kids).
But by losing their first two to the division-leading Cubs, it is self-evident that - all together now - “This is not a very good baseball team.”
Now general manager Walt Jocketty can start looking to made trades for 2009 and beyond.
But he has a major problem: the players he would like to trade are not what other teams want, mostly overpriced and underachieving. The untouchables are the players other teams want and Jocketty can’t trade those if he is trying to build.
He has a major challenge. He worked magic in St. Louis and I’ve been looking for his sorcerer’s hat. Haven’t found it yet. Not even a magic wand. He’ll have to do it on his own.
OK, it’s nearly midnight and Wrigley Field is empty and the press box is a sauna. Outside in Wrigleyville, one can still hear the fans singing, “Go Cubs go, Go Cubs go,” a catchy tune fans begin singing after every win.
I’ve been hearing it a lot lately. Even in my dreams.
I can remember back in The Big Red Machine Days when Cincinnati TV icon Ruth Lyons had folks on her show singing, “The Whole Town’s Batty, About Cincinnati, What a Team, What a Team, What a Team.”
Right now I’m saying the same thing: “What a team.”
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Comments
By ёклмн
January 2, 2009 2:14 AM | Link to this
Занимательная и интересная статья у вас. В отличие от большинства остальных похожих минимум воды! :)By Coach
July 11, 2008 1:14 AM | Link to this
I’d listen to Pete any day over Mr. Redlegs. Hal I don’t need a refresher course—I know Pete better than Mr. Redlegs does!By Matt
July 10, 2008 7:40 PM | Link to this
Rick, if they weren’t able to pitch deep into games when Dusty managed there, they shouldn’t have been on the roster. I hardly believe that Prior and Wood threw 130 plus pitches every time out. As a starting pitcher, you better be able to go at least 6 innings per start, or you shouldn’t be in there.By Rick
July 10, 2008 6:53 PM | Link to this
So they had arm problems before Dusty got there, yet he continued to send them out consistently for over 130 pitches? That’s a crime.By ross
July 10, 2008 6:04 PM | Link to this
Its not the coaches..Reds have good coaches Berry a great 3B coach…Billy Hatcher a great instructor..Speier good inf instructor need to quit firing people up thereBy Mr. Redlegs (Original)
July 10, 2008 5:52 PM | Link to this
Ha,, would you be kind enough to offer a refresher to some people on the Pete Rose managerial reign, how many people were screaming for his head because of his in-game managing and about the friction he caused in the clubhouse and how certain players couldn’t stand playing for him because Pete held grudges, like Paul O’Neill. But hey, Pete was great because he hustled and he cared and wore emotions on his sleeve, and he’s one of the gang and blah-blah. Pete-Pete-Pete. The clock is not rolling back 25 years.By Mr. Redlegs (Original)
July 10, 2008 5:46 PM | Link to this
Holy Cripes! When you start talking about Pete managing for life and having a manager stomp, scream and yell to inspire a team pathetically thin on talent and ability, you’re babbling non-sense and I have no reason why you’re on a baseball blog. Unreal perspectives. Madness.By Nick W
July 10, 2008 4:44 PM | Link to this
jim i think we all here no that pete bet on baseball but he never never bet on a team he played for or managed and its been years since he has bet on baseball i think it is time to let him in the hall and back to baseball and i for one would love for pete to be a manger or even a hitting coach i believe he might no a thing or two about that..By Coach
July 10, 2008 4:43 PM | Link to this
Homrun today, or not{how long has it been?}—I don’t buy this crap about Griffey can’t run because of screws in his a$$! I have seen him run well when he wants to do so! I have also, seen him jog after lifting a sorry fly ball in crucial situations. He needs to alternate with Dunn, until they get rid of both of them. The ONLY WAY I keep Dunn next year, is if he agrees to play first base—Votto goes to left!By coach
July 10, 2008 4:19 PM | Link to this
Jungle Gym: Learn to read before you respond. I already anticipated your dumb response about Pete’s betting—the point was about a fiery leader. Think Griffey would get away with jogging to first with Billy Martin managing?By Wizard
July 10, 2008 4:11 PM | Link to this
Jungle Gym: No one hear is talking about screaming—I don’t have to scream at someone to get their attention: when they don’t hustle/or treat my paid admission, as if it isn’t worthy of their busting their butt to impress me—I just sit them on the damn bench—regardless of who they are! Repeat—no one here is screaming—we just demand a helluva lot better effort—regardless of talent! Comprende?By jim
July 10, 2008 4:06 PM | Link to this
One other thing. Pete Rose bet on Baseball. He will not nor should he ever be allowed to be a active particpant in another game again. If you want him to be elected to the HOF so be it. But he should never be in the position to influence a game again. EVER.By jim
July 10, 2008 3:59 PM | Link to this
Will all you people who think all the reds need is a team leader to get in everyones face PLEASE WAKE UP.All the screaming in the world isn’t going to make Ken Griffey 29 again. Its not going to change Adam Dunn into a 300 hitter and run like the wind in the field. This is not a good team. It hasn’t been a good team and quite honestly it will be a while before they are a good team. They’re lineup swings and misses more than a windmill in Notrhern Calf. They have know speed. The defence is well below average. They have know number 5 starter. They’re to two starters comming into the season have been awful.Now,do you really beleive that screaming at the players is going to turn this mess around. If you do I got a bridge to sell you.What the reds do have is some nice young players who have shown potential. They need time to develope and more need to be added. Walt, good luck your going to need it.If all else fails just scream at them. That will make things better.By michael
July 10, 2008 3:53 PM | Link to this
I am sure Matt doesn’t agree, and he would prefer Griffey Jr to manage, but I am with you Coach…Pete played and managed the game the way it was meant to be.By Nick W
July 10, 2008 2:15 PM | Link to this
i think if we used matts invetion of the emotion barometer pete rose would have highest u could get..that also brings up a good point we need some to lead by example ryan freel is like that but now that he is hurt someone is gonna have to play that hard and hustle like freel or mr charlie hustle himselfBy coach
July 10, 2008 1:56 PM | Link to this
It must be said—and I know beforehand some obvious responses—but, what this team needs is Pete Rose managing in the dugout—for life! Think he might light a fire??? Think he might get in some faces? Think he might make some changes? Think he might demand people sprint when running bases?By Jack
July 10, 2008 1:46 PM | Link to this
Hamilton certainly has great numbers and playing well, just not sure how those would play out on the Reds and/or National league. The Reds certainly are not putting anyone on base, so RBI’s would be a problem. Since we have no idea how good either will become, lets play best case scenario for both, would you rather have another Pedro Martinez or another Jermaine Dye (may not be the best, but was trying to come up with someone quick)?By Matt
July 10, 2008 1:44 PM | Link to this
Well Nick, when someone invents a barometer or instrument to measure a player’s emotion let me know. Zambrano was a lot more emotional a few years ago than he is now. He has more of a veteran’s mentality these days, and it shows. I just don’t see how you judge the measure of emotion that a team shows. I have no doubt that emotion is shown behind closed doors or in the clubhouse, but if your looking for the players to be all ra-ra and jumping up and down with joy on the field your not going to find it. You may catch little glimpses of it in the dugout, and I know I have on T.V at times.By Nick W
July 10, 2008 1:31 PM | Link to this
matt i did see some emotion in the cubs look at carlos zambrano he plays on pure emotion and u don’t think that the players see that and feed off his emotion..that play where he bunted and busted his butt down the line and was safe that was a bad call the players notice that and see him out there givin 110% ever time he pitches and u don’t think they try to play a little harder when he ptiches cus he will get in there face look at when he got in the fight with the catcher in the dugout cus of a throw the catcher made players see that i don’t care if there in the majors minors high school whereever when u see a player that shows that much emotion ever time he goes out it makes u work and play a little harder and im sure behind closed doors he is the same way..thats what i was talking about when i said the reds need a leader and carlos is the leader of the cubs so yea i did see some one on the cubs play with emotion and no one on the reds play like that got a little bit of emoiton from hairston the other night not but not nearly as much as the big Z shows…By Cait
July 10, 2008 1:18 PM | Link to this
I’m still on the fence about trading Dunn. The Reds don’t have anyone in the minors ready to replace his #s. But we do need a right handed power hitter. Also, I think the Reds have a clubhouse leader in Phillips. I’ve been watching him closely lately. I see him point at teammates who make good plays and I saw him yesterday before the game walk by EE in the dugout and tap him on the chin - sort of like a father would. Plus, he’s great with fans. I hope he takes the team leader role and runs with it. I could go on, but I’ll settle for another plug for Valentin. Bako and Ross are not that good defensively and they stink offensively. Valentin is the best all-around catcher on this team and deserves to play more - a lot more - until the Reds come up with a viable long-term starter. I won’t dream of another JB, they are rare, but the next Joe Oliver is out there somewhere. That will do!By coach
July 10, 2008 1:16 PM | Link to this
yt27: Best comment ever made on this blog! Well said. Perfecto!By coach
July 10, 2008 1:06 PM | Link to this
Pat: The play was only tough, due to the lack of skill presented by the outfielder—a good fielder would have demonstrated speed enough to be waiting on the ball to come down into his glove!By coach
July 10, 2008 12:58 PM | Link to this
MAC: The lack of offense all year, is exactly why the lack of defense {anywhere}cannot happen! There,does that feel better? I said it sufficiently correct the first time—Mr. Dunn lover.Some of us make a point, without belaboring it! However, consider this: perhaps, if plays are made—runs will score after that inning is over!But, when plays are not made…duh! Major league athletes are supposed to make these plays! That isn’t being unrealistic.”Educated objectivity”—you have none.Think before you type.By Matt
July 10, 2008 12:26 PM | Link to this
Nick, as far as all this talk about showing emotion out there, what kind of emotion are you looking for? Did you see the Cubs showing a whole bunch of emotion the last two nights? Their fans did, but I didn’t see much emotion from the players themselves. Does that mean they don’t care? No. These guys are multi-millionaires, not Little Leaguers or Minor Leaguers fighting for a job every day. Your not going to see a big-league ball club going crazy on the field or showing delirious emotion. It’s simply not going to happen. It may happen in the clubhouse or behind closed doors. But it’s like some fans on here expect Adam Dunn to lead the Reds in a cheer every time they come out on the field, and that is not needed and it isn’t going to happen. You shouldn’t need to be motivated to play MLB, or any other pro sport. If you need someone to kick you in the pants everyday to get you to play hard and leave i tall on the field, then you need to look at a different career.By Joe
July 10, 2008 12:16 PM | Link to this
RBI total so far this season; Josh Hamilton-89, Griffey/Dunn-91.By Nick W
July 10, 2008 12:12 PM | Link to this
Mr. Redlegs i agree that someone getting in their faces will not turn them into a winning team now but we do need a leader to get this team fired up and show some emotion out there.this series they showed no emotion at all and for such a big series that could have brought them closer to .500 and closer in the standings they should have came out with a lot more emotion and i know the cubs are defintly a better team but if u have a player that has been on the team for a couple years like phillips, show some excitement it might show these young players that u do want to win and it could give them some confindence and have them play better..im just saying that every team needs a leader and we don’t have one and we haven’t had one in a couple of years..and i also agree with u on pryor and wood i think hal said it best look at wood he is a great closer and also an all star so baker obvisily didn’t ruin his career if he is an allstar pitcher and i think baker has done a great job with cueto and volquez i think that he has a done a great job not putting them in for to long..By Y-City Jim
July 10, 2008 12:07 PM | Link to this
I think Hamilton would have been decent but he is benefitting from The Ballpark at Arlington, which makes GABP look like a pitcher’s park. The difference between his home and away stats are extreme. The ball carries pretty good when it’s 100+ degrees in the daytime.By bill
July 10, 2008 12:01 PM | Link to this
i said it then and i’ll say it again - trading josh hamilton was a mistake. granted volquez has been tremendous, but he pitches every 5 days. hamilton could play every day. the reds need hitting. it’s no guarantee hamilton would have done for the reds this year what he’s done for the rangers, but he would have been productive. in spite of it all, i’m still a fan.By Y-City Jim
July 10, 2008 12:01 PM | Link to this
It seems odd that we hear that Dunn has little market value then we hear his 40 HR, 100R, and 100RBI will cost too much. If Dunn has little market value won’t he be less expensive to resign?By jeff
July 10, 2008 11:49 AM | Link to this
For those of you wanting to keep dunn you have to look at Money you can’t just say 40,100,100,100. Look at 15 million. Our payroll is lucky will be 70 million. He would make 1/5 of the payroll. I agree you could just let him go and get the 2 draft picks but you just don’t know with draft picks. However a team in need of a power hitter (both LA teams) could be willing to part with a top prospect knowing that even if they don’t sign dunn those draft picks become theirs. That alone increases his trade value. I do think we are beginning to build the core of this team. I am excited about the pitching. Harang (god hope he’s healthy), Volquez, Cuesto, Thompson. That is a solid 4. Bullpen, 7th-Bray, 8th-Burton, 9th Co-co. Thats pretty tough. Lineup wise its not far off. If Bruce and Votto learn from this year they will be fine. I think of that 15 million you can find another right handed bat, a solid catcher and lefty for the rotation. I also concur that Dusty has not impressed anyone. I honestly don’t think he is good for a young team. He is a vet manager and some of the moves he makes are absolutely baffling. Take last night, Cueto is at 96 pitches through 6 giveing up one run and he lets him come out. Our 7,8,9guys have been great. Cueto gets to 111 and gives up the runs. That is not the kids fault. Dusty isn’t going anywhere but I think good ole castellini needs to set some standardsBy Matt
July 10, 2008 11:46 AM | Link to this
If Dusty Baker is who you are referring to when you talk about “coaches” Steven, then you are mistaken. Baker is the best Reds manager in years and should be kept around as long as he wants to be here.By arniez
July 10, 2008 11:42 AM | Link to this
JAC - you get the prize for the post of the day. Jack - Where the hell did that come from???By Steven Ross
July 10, 2008 11:33 AM | Link to this
I took sweeping the Nats with a grain of salt because, let’s face it, they’re worse than us. I felt the acid test would be the Cubs at Wrigley. What I witnessed the past two nights confirms my worst fears: we’re miles away from not only being good but competitive too. They’re beating us like a rented mule. Good luck Mr. Jocketty. The re-shaping of the roster, coaches included, can begin now.By Mr. Redlegs (Original)
July 10, 2008 11:20 AM | Link to this
Things That Make You Go Hmmmm… . 1.) How does leadership and getting into the face of a player whose talent and experience does not measure up to the competition suddenly make you a winner and a contender? (Hint: It doesn’t). 2.) If Prior and Wood don’t carry the Cubs on their backs, literally, down the stretch of 2003, they do not get within 5 outs of the World Series, the playoffs or even the bathroom. Hindsight is 20/10 vision; 3.) Why do some people keep yelling to trade Dunn and Griffey when they have absolutely no market value and there is absolutely no one to replace them as is? Take the draft picks and move on. 4.) Reds fans complained about the Ray Knights, Jack McKeons, Bob Boones, Dave Mileys and Jerry Narrons managing on the cheap, so the Reds hire a proven manager with more than 1,200 career wins and all you do is complain. Please, what do you want? You’ve had it both ways. It’s the talent, people. It’s the t-a-l-e-n-t. 5.) I’m 139 years old and I have no idea what a “gafalon” is, but I’m sure I saw some of that cookware on sale at Costco for $159.By JAC
July 10, 2008 11:15 AM | Link to this
From urbandictionary.com:.Gonfalon — a word that can carry any number of meanings. As versatile as the F word, and as all-encompassing as the widget. Gonfalon can be an active verb meaning to have sex with, a passive verb meaning to nap, a noun meaning a crotchy old man, or an adjective meaning big or important. The original meaning of gonfalon is “a poster or banner hung from a wooden pole for use on display, such as used in Medieval Italy.” Therefore, perhaps the most appropriate usage of the word gonfalon is when it describes throwing a wooden stake like a javelin, with the intention of “gonfaloning” someone who causes you displeasure. By the end of reunions, Ashley just wanted to gonfalon that old gonfalon with a gonfalon and then go take a gonfalon gonfalon back in Scully.By Nick W
July 10, 2008 10:57 AM | Link to this
i think the biggest thing the reds need is a team leader which they don’t have..griffey is not a team leader and never has tried to be dunn is not a team leader i think the only player that needs to step in and become the team leader is phillips..i think he can be a good leader and next year when either dunn of griffey are gone he will step in to that role and hopefully the team will rally around him..he needs to be the player who is not afraid to get in someones face when the make a bad play or be the first to congradulate them and also lead by example on the field and with such a young team we really need a player like that and i believe phillips can be that player.By Jack
July 10, 2008 10:47 AM | Link to this
Been noticing a bad trend in the last few comments to the blog. Posters do not like Griffey, Patterson, Baker because of their abilities, not because of their race. The same posters also do not like Dunn, Arroyo, Weathers. Please stop tring to make this racial. Shockingly, the same posters like Phillips, Volquez, Cueto…because of their ability. Look at stats, not color. It is beyond me how it could be the color of skin when people are bashing Griffey AND Dunn. It doesnt make sense.By Mr. Baseball
July 10, 2008 10:26 AM | Link to this
Keepers for next year: Bruce, Votto, Keppinger, Phillips, Hairston, Volquez, Cueto, Harang, Thompson, Bray, Burton, Cordero. Everyone else is expendable.By Doco
July 10, 2008 10:13 AM | Link to this
On a happy Reds note, last nights Best Damn Sports Show on Fox picked its All-Time Starting Nine and the only teammates on it were Bench and Morgan. And they gave Mike Schmidt the nod at 3rd. Pretty good showing for this area. Hank beat out the Babe in RF. Did anyone know that Hank Aaron played in 25 All-Star games? 25!!! Wow!By Matt
July 10, 2008 10:05 AM | Link to this
No, Nick, I believe you are mistaken. “10-15 years” until the playoffs?? Wow, I sure hope not. With the young talent the Reds have, primarily in the starting rotation (Cueto, Volquez) this team will be good for years to come, provided those players stay healthy and the Reds are able to keep them around, or most of them around, and add veterans at key positions. Nobody likes to lose, and Jocketty and Baker are definitely no exception. I’m telling you, let those two have a full offseason to mold and shape this team. I am willing to guarantee the Reds team that takes the field in ‘09 will be a dramatically different team than the one we see now. This team will win and they will win soon, very soon.By Tim Dierkes
July 10, 2008 10:03 AM | Link to this
Baseball Prospectus has a stat, Pitcher Abuse Points. In 2003, Wood ranked 2nd in baseball and Prior 4th. Both pitchers threw over 122 pitches nine times. Wood was 26, Prior 22. Dusty Baker rode them both into the ground and had a huge detrimental effect on their careers, no matter what the pitchers themselves say. The numbers don’t lie.By Tim Dierkes
July 10, 2008 10:02 AM | Link to this
Baseball Prospectus has a stat, Pitcher Abuse Points. In 2003, Wood ranked 2nd in baseball and Prior 4th. Both pitchers threw over 122 pitches nine times. Wood was 26, Prior 22. Dusty Baker rode them both into the ground and had a huge detrimental effect on their careers, no matter what the pitchers themselves say. The numbers don’t lie.By Nick
July 10, 2008 9:47 AM | Link to this
Reds are dumb. They give a closer one of the most lucrative contracts, and guess what he is sitting in the bullpen doing nothing. Talk about free money. Reds are pitiful, never will make it to the playoffs, maybe in like 10-15 more years. No hitters, No good starting pitching…It looks to be the beginning of another Jim Bowden era (just look how awesome the Nationals are). I would get rid of any player who cannot hit at least .275, or at least send them to the minors. Open up the pocketbook Casty, Reds are going to be losers for years to come.By Mr. Baseball
July 10, 2008 9:43 AM | Link to this
These are the times that try Reds fans’ souls. Hal’s column is right on target. Mike-Cinci has been telling us all along that this team does not have the parts to compete this year. Sadly, it is true. It’s not just a matter of tinkering or tweaking. The team has a young nucleus of players to build around, but this team needs better players. But most of all it needs a culture change. Hopefully, while Uncle Walt is evaluating, he’s taking a close look at the Tampa Rays. They went from having the worst record in the major leagues last year to the best record this year. They play with passion and with an attitude (just ask the Red Sox with whom they brawl almost every series). And they’re doing it mostly with young players. There is a way to become a winning organization.By NickB
July 10, 2008 9:43 AM | Link to this
Have you ever seen a 6’-6” 270 lbs. man play like such a little girl. Dunn looked like he was literally afraid of making contact with the ivy last night in a 1 run game with two outs. It wasn’t even like he was running full speed, he was drifting slowly backwards. A good teammate goes all out to save his rookie pitcher. He played that ball like it was the first time he ever played left field at Wrigley Field. Those comments made by the blue jays’ GM seems more and more accurate with each passing game.By Mike
July 10, 2008 9:39 AM | Link to this
Gonfalon..now that’s a real term only the select few know apparently. I’m a Grandfather, and even worked in the minors a few years and trust me..that term was never used in any way..! ( At least around our team) Hal you need to unveil this mask of mystery to the lowly fans who are not, have been, or ever will grace a chair in the press box! By the way..here’s another one..Why is a HR called a ” Johnson” ????By Robert
July 10, 2008 9:32 AM | Link to this
“He pitched masterfully,” Dusty Baker said. “We gave them two runs.” That’s it from Dustbag? No other comments? Nothing about how pitiful the offense is? Nothing about the lazy, uninspired play of this team? No, “I’m sick of losing and if some guys don’t get it together, they won’t be playing on this team!”, tirade? I want to hear some passion from someone. Lord knows, we fans are passionate. I don’t want to hear, “Dang, I thought we’d win that game.” I want to hear someone call out this team…tell them that it is expected, no DEMANDED of them that they give 110% at all times. Every pitch, every at-bat should be treated as if it is their last.By Ross
July 10, 2008 9:22 AM | Link to this
I would keep Dunn…let Javy get more ABs..Bako has always been terrible..Griffey will be gone at season end..need a RH good hitter..the Reds cannot beat mediocre LH pitching I still say Dunn is a franchise type player..u wont win with speed and defense in that park..need a mixture..Walt Jocketty is not the savior..all you guys thought Castellini and Baker was..Jockety is a clown..he will ruin this team thinking he has to be a hero..u dont trade 40HR, 100runs, 100RBI,100BB u just dontBy Bob
July 10, 2008 9:17 AM | Link to this
As I have repeated for the last eight years, while any Reds team seems to always need more pitching, you only have to look at the box score averages to see where the real need is. No pitcher can overcome a lineup with 4-6 players hitting sub-.240 with little or no ability to hit with RISP. Add to that fans’ insult the customarily best hitter in the three hole performing the way Jr. does and no one seems to care. Now look at the Cubs lineup; 8 of 9 hitting .270 plus. That says it all for any hope for the Reds; now or the future. If reality hasn’t set in by now after 8 yrs., I see no hope to think it will.By Matt
July 10, 2008 9:14 AM | Link to this
It’s not necessarily about what Jocketty gets in return for Ross, Weathers, etc. If I’m Jocketty, I don’t trade Affeldt. Why should he be traded? He’s been pretty good this year, and I believe he’s a good lefty to have down there in the bullpen. The Reds, after several years, finally have a rich, deep farm system. What they should do is package some prospects together, along with an expendable veteran, in order to acquire a part they need. Either that, or make the addition (s) through the free agent market. I agree with you about Patterson. I don’t know what Dusty’s obsession with Patterson is, or what redeemable qualities that he has. But Dusty’s career and numbers speak for themselves. Obviously, he has done something right. And if not Dusty, who? Who is available that is better than Dusty Baker? The Reds WILL win with Jocketty and Baker, just give them a little bit. Watch and see what happens over the course of this offseason. The team that takes the field next year will be the work of Jocketty and Baker. And that’s a pretty good combination to put your faith in. Who else would you want? Jim Bowden and Bob Boone? Oh yeah, that’s right. They’re busy wrecking the Nationals these days.By Steve
July 10, 2008 8:53 AM | Link to this
Matt, I’m basically with you regarding the core of the team being in place, and in Jocketty’s track record of success. Where we part ways is with Dusty. I just can’t get past his insistence on p(l)aying Corey Patterson so much for the first several - lost - weeks of the season. From the case you’ve made (and which I largely agree with) the changes for this team will not come in the next few months, but rather at the end of the year and during the off-season. I do think Jocketty will be able to trade Ross, Weathers, Hairston and Affeldt for small pieces, but not for anything that will fundamentally change things.By jeff
July 10, 2008 8:52 AM | Link to this
You will be able to find someone to take Dunn. However it might be wise to hold him and get the two first rounders. A team that gets him gets those picks as well so his trade value is higher than we think. Look at the brewers, even though they will lose sabathia after this season they get his draft picks he is worth. A deal for Dunn had to be pretty sweet to make up for those picks. If Arroyo has another good start I would move him. His salary doesnt warrant a stay. Apparently the marlins are interested in Ross, they can have him if they want to pay him his 4 million, weathers good luck and good bye, Grif I would keep unless you get a great offer, but he will be gone next year. Bruce is going to strugle, the kid is 21 and apparently are hitting coaches have no clue to tell him that teams are pitching him hard inside and breaking stuff away. This team needs a culture change for some gritty tough players.By jeff
July 10, 2008 8:52 AM | Link to this
You will be able to find someone to take Dunn. However it might be wise to hold him and get the two first rounders. A team that gets him gets those picks as well so his trade value is higher than we think. Look at the brewers, even though they will lose sabathia after this season they get his draft picks he is worth. A deal for Dunn had to be pretty sweet to make up for those picks. If Arroyo has another good start I would move him. His salary doesnt warrant a stay. Apparently the marlins are interested in Ross, they can have him if they want to pay him his 4 million, weathers good luck and good bye, Grif I would keep unless you get a great offer, but he will be gone next year. Bruce is going to strugle, the kid is 21 and apparently are hitting coaches have no clue to tell him that teams are pitching him hard inside and breaking stuff away. This team needs a culture change for some gritty tough players.By Matt
July 10, 2008 8:38 AM | Link to this
If “Dusty is not the man for the job”, then who would you hire? Another manager who will work for peanuts? I mean good grief, I am so sick and tired of the ignorance on this blog. Why isn’t Dusty the man for the job? What about his great record that he has compiled over his managerial career makes him unfit for this job? The Reds have players that “want to win”. How should Reds players show that they “want to win”? Should they get on TV and curse and throw things? Should they get into a dugout fight? Put on a too-too and pom-poms and lead the rest of the team in a cheer? This team already is infused with young players (Encarnacion, Phillips, Votto, Dunn, Bruce, Volquez, Cueto, etc.) What should the Reds do? Blow it up and “rebuild” for the umpteenth time and we have to sit and watch ‘em lose for another 7 years? No. This team by and large has the talent? They simply have not developed into the players they are going to be. Heck, Votto, Bruce, Cueto and Volquez are in their first full season! This team will be great for years to come if they add veterans at key positions (CF, SP) and simply retool. Jocketty knows what he’s doing, Baker knows what he’s doing, and they’ll get it done. It’s not going to happen overnight. Most of the players on this team Jocketty and Baker inherited. Let them put their own stamp on this ball club and things WILL improve and quickly.By yt27
July 10, 2008 8:38 AM | Link to this
What does it say about the Reds when Johnny Cueto has the best at bat of the game against Zambrano? Perhaps Cueto should be the hitting coach. This team is going nowhere. It’s time to look to the future. Make Hairston the everyday SS, Keppinger the eveyday 3B, move EE to 1B, move Votto to LF(he would be a defensive upgrade). Griffey or Dunn need to be the odd man out each game. Figure out a way to get Roenicke and Herrera in the bullpen and Hannigan behind the plate.By Jim in Georgia
July 10, 2008 7:59 AM | Link to this
Oh, and by the way! The Gonfalon is something that shall not be seen in Cincinnati for some time! Hint: We have em for 1919,1940,1975,1976,1990By Jim in Georgia
July 10, 2008 7:52 AM | Link to this
One Run. Two hits. Three errors. That pretty much sums up the Reds season. Walt Jocketty should be on the phone 23 hours a day right now. We are definitley a seller team. Time to infuse the team with young players who want to play. I’ll say it every time I post. “this team has a lot of quit in them!”. Pull the trigger Walt. You to Bob. Dusty is not the man for the job!By Liz
July 10, 2008 7:42 AM | Link to this
Hal, I’m 64, my Dad’s gone and I have never heard the word gonfalon. Please help!!By Mike-Cinci
July 10, 2008 7:24 AM | Link to this
Hal said it all in this blog. I could not agree with him more. This team is short of talent to compete against the good teams. Reds management has to make a commitment to scouting and doing a better job of developing young players or they will never catch up to the better teams in baseball. Tinkering won’t work. Jocketty has a tough job ahead of him.By Kjudson
July 10, 2008 7:23 AM | Link to this
You were unfair to Keppinger about his “error.” Go back and look at the replay and see what the grounder did when it hit the prominent footprint in the dirt. This kind of thing used to be scored as a “bad hop single.” Keppinger never had a chance on this one.By Kjudson
July 10, 2008 7:22 AM | Link to this
You were unfair to Keppinger about his “error.” Go back and look at the replay and see what the grounder did when it hit the prominent footprint in the dirt. This kind of thing used to be scored as a “bad hop single.” Keppinger never had a chance on this one.By AP-FLORIDA
July 10, 2008 7:13 AM | Link to this
58 NEVER HEARD OF GONE FELONBy MAC
July 10, 2008 7:00 AM | Link to this
Monkey, I’d agree w/ you and Mr. McCoy about Dunn and Griffey…nobody wants them and their contracts. So the Reds will have to pay part of their contracts and or put something w/ them to sweeten any possible deal IMO. Bailey, EE or maybe one of our BP pitchers could most likely get something done? Of course management could quit talking about winning and put some more money where their mouths are?By ShockMonkey
July 10, 2008 6:35 AM | Link to this
I’ve seen enough of Dunn, Griffey and Bako to last a lifetime. Unfortunately, as Hal mentions, there’s nobody interested in the big-fella with too few takers willing to take a flyer on washed-up Griffey too. How in the wide, wide world of Reds baseball does Bako get a majority of the starts is one of life’s biggest conundrums. This team is awful.By michael
July 10, 2008 6:19 AM | Link to this
I think most on here are still batty about our Reds. Thats why we are here! The big Red Machine is why I am, and always will be a Reds fan. It was the best time to be a kid.By michael
July 10, 2008 6:15 AM | Link to this
The Big Red Machine days were a great time to be a kid. Its because of that time that I am a baseball fanatic still batty about my Cincinnati Reds.By Gary Maloy Jr
July 10, 2008 3:56 AM | Link to this
gonfalon??!!!!? Hal, I’m nearly 48 and have never heard the word before. I’m afraid you just pushed a bunch of fathers off the cliff. Maybe you should have told the kids to ask their grandpappies??By Pat
July 10, 2008 3:37 AM | Link to this
I’m almost 50 and I had to google gafalon. Seems it was used in a poem about the 1908 cubs too. Very impressive, Mr. McCoy. Nice catch by Dunn later in the game. I’m sure no one will mention it, so I will. Tough play earlier, I think it was tougher than people will admit.By MAC
July 10, 2008 2:27 AM | Link to this
Objectively discussing the Reds, I think most of us could agree this is a young team overall and because of that this team is likely to be inconsistent at best and thats basically what weve seen all year long. Sure, we were hoping for the best this season, but I think most of us realized it would take a lot of stars falling into place for anything special to happen. IMO, this team has some nice pieces in place: Phillips, Votto, Bruce and EE along w/ the young pitchers and some nice role players in Freel, Kepp, Harriston and Hopper. What this team doesnt have is a stud or two to really impose their will against our opponents; Griffey and Dunn just arent getting it done and I dont think they ever will be the players this team/organization needs them to be. That being said, it looks as though the Reds have a couple of reasonable options at this point: continue to wait for a couple of these young players to develop into the studs this team needs, or make some trades in an attempt to bring in a stud or two to go along w/ our young developing core players. Unfortunately, I think the Reds will have to give up one or more of our young players to get this done; I doubt ownership will simply put more money on the table to get it done? Of course it would be much easier for most of us fans to accept the losing and continue to support the team, if management insisted the players on the field hustled or paid for it when they didnt!By Matt
July 10, 2008 2:00 AM | Link to this
And with Zambrano pitching, it was over after the homer by Ramirez. But a very good outing by Cueto, and I’m sure the next time he pitches, he’ll do very well, even better than this outing. Zambrano, and Dempster, the guy we faced last night, have been shutting teams down all year, not just last night and tonight vs. the Reds. The Cubs are in first place for a reason. It’s not just dumb luck.By MAC
July 10, 2008 1:54 AM | Link to this
Dunn misplays one fly ball w/ two outs that allows a couple of bases and it’s a felony. Bako allows one pass ball in game one that scores a run and only 2 posters out of 78 say anything about it in yesterday’s blog…where’s the logic/objectivity here people? I’ve been on all sides of this type of issue and understand the frustration, but let’s maintain some educated objectivity when commenting on the Reds. To that point, this game was over when Ramirez? went yard and the Reds managed absolutely nothing on offense the rest of the game; that’s being objective. Its simply unrealistic to expect our pitchers and defense to be perfect night in and night out and think we can win ball games on a regular basis on a walk or two and a couple of hits; the offense has been the major problem all year long and it was again tonight.By Y-City Jim
July 10, 2008 12:36 AM | Link to this
It’s 1-1 if anyone could have played defense.By coach
July 10, 2008 12:03 AM | Link to this
In a series that you have to win/want to win— how does a manager sit his best leadoff hitter? It’s still 2-1 if Dunn could play defense! Another demonstration of how unimportant his home run production is!